[C38] Listserve Digest, prop walk, dodger.
Alden Andre
alden642 at comcast.net
Sun Oct 28 15:32:52 EDT 2007
I have a 2 bladed fixed prop on flybye and have to back out of a single slip
every day. What I have found is that I get the boat moving by hand standing
on the dock then get on and put it in reverse. If you try to just put it in
reverse without rear movement it will just turn and not go back wards. A
good drill to practice is doing 360's at a hover about the mast. Using your
Trans going forward and reverse. What you will find is that the boat will do
it turning right but not going left. Going left it will turn going forward
but when you put it in reverse it will stop the turn. Once you see this you
can plan and use this to your advantage when docking and leaving. I am going
to put a feathering prop on this winter but have not decided which one yet.
Not because of the prop walk I just want to reduce more drag while sailing.
TO ALL who emailed me for pictures of the dodger and Biminis I hope they
went through I got some of the emails kicked back saying it was to big of a
file. If you did not receive them just shoot me another email and I will
resend a smaller file.
Alden Andre
Vice Commodore
Columbia River All Catalinal Association
C-38 FLYBYE
503-929-8814
Alden642 at comcast.net
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: performance (Charles)
2. Re: performance (Glen Robinson)
3. Re: performance (William Knowles)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:59:15 -0400
From: Charles <charles at finn.ws>
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <472495B3.4040401 at finn.ws>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Ken,
I too was a bit taken aback with the prop walk on the 38s. It is much
more than my last boat and I my experience on the helm on a couple of
"J" boats which have significantly less. I think this is a trade-off
for our particular mast - keel configuration which allows us to point so
well. As far as props go, I went to the three blade Sailor prop and
experienced what Phil is talking about in terms of the additional power
these blades have over the two blade. Again, there are trade-offs. My
three blade prop increases boat speed (over one knot at 2200 rpm for me)
and reduces fuel consumption (I keep track). It also has reduced drive
train resonance, which really bothered me. But, it does slow the boat,
which I could have eliminated with Phil's $2500 prop (mine cost $500).
I think your Universal is actually a 24 hp engine, which is a bit under
powered, but I am sticking with mine as I still have other places to put
that $10,000!
It took me a couple/three years to figure out the throttle technique
(slow learner) and there are still situations that make me nervous such
as high winds with crowded docks. But, this prop walk can be managed
with practice.
Charles Finn
Mighty Quinn #114
Kenneth M. Sutto wrote:
> I recently bought a '83 Catalina. I am in the process of getting to
> know the boat and how it handles. It has the standard Universal 21hp
> engine and two blade prop. My big problem is every time I try to back
> out of my slip the stern wants to got to the port no matter which
> way I turn the wheel. I have a tight slip length and width wise.
> Is there some way I can get more control performance wise other than
> getting a bigger engine? Would a three blade prop help? What is the
> best way to turn the wheel once I get water flowing past the rutter?
> Ken Catalina #251
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Robinson <g.a.robinson at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <913848.37628.qm at web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ken,
We, too, have the Universal/2-blade configuration on SNOWBIRD, but have
decided that the "prop-walk is a terrific ADVANTAGE when approaching a
side-tie dock (probably 95% of all our docking situations). We lay our
lines and fenders on the port side, approach at a 45 deg angle (preferably
slowly, but as fast as necessary to overcome wind, tide, etc), turn right as
the bow nears the dock, then place in Reverse. Takes a bit of practice, but
the combination of the right turn and the prop-walk sucks the stern neatly
to the dock every time! As the boat stops completely, JoAnn steps (no
jumping--ever! We re-approach, as necessary until I get it right. Safety
always trumps ego!) onto the dock and secures with a midships spring line.
I then am able to assist securing the bow and stern lines at our leisure.
When returning to our 2-fingered home slip, we motor down the runway a
distance past our own dock, idle to a stop, and place in reverse. Once
reverse momentum is gained, reasonable steerage is obtained, and backing
straight is fairly easy, with practice. (I step around the pedestal, facing
aft while in reverse. Once accustmed to the reverse controls, I find it
much easier to see and drive--but the danger of confusion is obvious.)
As you all know, a firm grip is required in reverse, as the balanced
rudder wants to go all the way, once turned just a bit in either direction.
Others may have different practices, but after 27 years and hundreds of
dockings in dozens of ports in varying conditions this usually works for us.
Congratulations on your new boat, and Good Luck!
JoAnn&glen
SNOWBIRD
Stockton, CA
Charles <charles at finn.ws> wrote:
Ken,
I too was a bit taken aback with the prop walk on the 38s. It is much
more than my last boat and I my experience on the helm on a couple of
"J" boats which have significantly less. I think this is a trade-off
for our particular mast - keel configuration which allows us to point so
well. As far as props go, I went to the three blade Sailor prop and
experienced what Phil is talking about in terms of the additional power
these blades have over the two blade. Again, there are trade-offs. My
three blade prop increases boat speed (over one knot at 2200 rpm for me)
and reduces fuel consumption (I keep track). It also has reduced drive
train resonance, which really bothered me. But, it does slow the boat,
which I could have eliminated with Phil's $2500 prop (mine cost $500).
I think your Universal is actually a 24 hp engine, which is a bit under
powered, but I am sticking with mine as I still have other places to put
that $10,000!
It took me a couple/three years to figure out the throttle technique
(slow learner) and there are still situations that make me nervous such
as high winds with crowded docks. But, this prop walk can be managed
with practice.
Charles Finn
Mighty Quinn #114
Kenneth M. Sutto wrote:
> I recently bought a '83 Catalina. I am in the process of getting to
> know the boat and how it handles. It has the standard Universal 21hp
> engine and two blade prop. My big problem is every time I try to back
> out of my slip the stern wants to got to the port no matter which
> way I turn the wheel. I have a tight slip length and width wise.
> Is there some way I can get more control performance wise other than
> getting a bigger engine? Would a three blade prop help? What is the
> best way to turn the wheel once I get water flowing past the rutter?
> Ken Catalina #251
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last.
> Get it now!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Knowles <william_k_19810 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <717398.16669.qm at web56005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I installed a KIWI three blade in Flying goose this
year and had a marked improvement in both boat speed
and prop walk. Since the prop has a much greater pitch
in reverse than forward it bites faster in reverse and
gives that extra kick. The Kiwi is a good compromise
in cost also about $1200. Another thing I found is
keep your rudder straight when first backing it lets
the boat build speed quicker turning it to early acts
like a brake in tight spots I know it is tempting but
if you reframe life becomes a whole lot easier.
Good Sailing
Bill
--- Charles <charles at finn.ws> wrote:
> Ken,
> I too was a bit taken aback with the prop walk on
> the 38s. It is much
> more than my last boat and I my experience on the
> helm on a couple of
> "J" boats which have significantly less. I think
> this is a trade-off
> for our particular mast - keel configuration which
> allows us to point so
> well. As far as props go, I went to the three blade
> Sailor prop and
> experienced what Phil is talking about in terms of
> the additional power
> these blades have over the two blade. Again, there
> are trade-offs. My
> three blade prop increases boat speed (over one knot
> at 2200 rpm for me)
> and reduces fuel consumption (I keep track). It
> also has reduced drive
> train resonance, which really bothered me. But, it
> does slow the boat,
> which I could have eliminated with Phil's $2500 prop
> (mine cost $500).
> I think your Universal is actually a 24 hp engine,
> which is a bit under
> powered, but I am sticking with mine as I still have
> other places to put
> that $10,000!
> It took me a couple/three years to figure out the
> throttle technique
> (slow learner) and there are still situations that
> make me nervous such
> as high winds with crowded docks. But, this prop
> walk can be managed
> with practice.
>
> Charles Finn
> Mighty Quinn #114
>
> Kenneth M. Sutto wrote:
> > I recently bought a '83 Catalina. I am in the
> process of getting to
> > know the boat and how it handles. It has the
> standard Universal 21hp
> > engine and two blade prop. My big problem is every
> time I try to back
> > out of my slip the stern wants to got to the port
> no matter which
> > way I turn the wheel. I have a tight slip length
> and width wise.
> > Is there some way I can get more control
> performance wise other than
> > getting a bigger engine? Would a three blade prop
> help? What is the
> > best way to turn the wheel once I get water
> flowing past the rutter?
> > Ken Catalina #251
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook
> ? together at last.
> > Get it now!
> >
>
<http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL1006269
71033>
>
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
> >
>
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
>
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