[C38] The Catalina Smile
Les
hlhowell at pacbell.net
Mon Oct 1 01:50:33 EDT 2007
Hi, Glenn,
The Catalina smile is a crack that will appear around the root of the
keel on the leading edge. It appears, as far as I know on all the boats
built by Catalina based on the S&S molds. The keel is 8000 pounds
hanging on bolts from the bottom of the bilge. Because the keel is
swept, the weight is concentrated on the after end, and the forces
against the keel when the boat is sailing hard tend to twist the keel on
the boat, a stress develops at the point farthest from the fulcrum
point, which on our boats is the leading edge at the root of the keel
where it joins the fiberglass keel stub. This area was caulked, ground
down, and belted with fiberglass at the factory. but that was 25+ years
ago. Gravity, forces from sailing, stress, and an occasional grounding
all have contributed to the keels condition on the boats. And as was
pointed out, not supporting the keel correctly will worsen the
condition. However, it will not break these hulls (at least I have
never heard of it happening, and the surveyor I hired for JACE when she
was Infinity said these boats were basically bulletproof.) Here in
southern California, these boats are highly desired, so it is not a big
issue. The smile is basically a cosmetic thing, that requires an
occasional foundation and makeup as a dancer friend of mine once said.
When you see it, fix it, but don't worry about it unless you get more
than 1/2 an inch crack (in that case, something somewhere is losing its
strength and needs some work, or the boat has been run full tilt into
something). Someone else may have better information or more detailed
data about the smile, its causes and origins.
I just know I love my boat, and this is what I have heard from several
different sources, including yards, and some avid racers on these boats.
Regards,
Les H
On Sun, 2007-09-30 at 20:19 -0700, Glenn Terry wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 1983 build that I believe is in the production run that has
> the smile. My boat does not have it. Could someone give me a
> description or a picture of it. I am starting to get worried.
>
> Regards,
>
> G!enn
>
> --
> Glenn Terry
> OEM Software Licensing
> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> 4180 Network Circle
> USCA18-312
> Santa Clara, CA 95054
> w-408-404-8966 x4-0966
> f-408-404-8966
> glenn.terry at sun.com
>
> S. Orton wrote:
> > I wouldn't take the chance. Greater support at the aft end will cause a
> > moment (rotation) on the keel which could put the forward end into tension
> > causing the crack to open up.
> > Steve----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rodriguez, Enrique (Procure, ClaimNet)"
> > <Enrique.Rodriguez at thehartford.com>
> > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [C38] The Catalina Smile
> >
> >
> >
> > > Why wouldn't you ask the yard to support the keep along most of its
> > > length?
> > >
> > > Enrique
> > > Talisman 1998 MK2
> > > Sailing from Essex, CT
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of S. Orton
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:47 AM
> > > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > > Subject: Re: [C38] The Catalina Smile
> > >
> > > Our boat is an '85 and is in So Cal- no winters. The purchasing survey
> > > in
> > > '97 did not show a smile and two years later a smile appeared after haul
> > > out at which I was clueless as to the proper method of "on the hard
> > > support".
> > > The cradle was ok , but the keel was supported near the aft end. The
> > > yard said all Catalina's have that smile- don't worry about it. Two
> > > years later at the haul out the smile grew and some of the fiberglass
> > > and fairing material at the smile was literally rotten and smelled
> > > rotten. The smile ran halfway back along the keel stub. We made about
> > > 5-8 templates, ground out the complete stub to keel mating profile all
> > > the way around exposing bare lead. The grinding was tapered from the
> > > mating profile a good 3-4 inches up and down. I don't remember exactly
> > > the depth of material that was removed at the joint, but it was
> > > considerable- 1/4 to 1/2 inch. It took considerable amount of heat to
> > > dry area, before new material could be applied. The rotten material
> > > removed was a combination of fiberglass and fairing material. When the
> > > mating surface was dry, we caulked any gaps with epoxie and glass. The
> > > new material was layer after layer of glass cloth and West System
> > > epoxie- The last few coats was epoxie thickened with silica.
> > > Applied the templates and sand to original faired surface. The job took
> > > 4-5 days. The smile repair was done six years ago and has not
> > > reappeared. But when the boat is hauled now, I am telling the yard
> > > exactly where to put the keel support- as far forward as possible with
> > > no supports at the aft portion of the keel.
> > >
> > > Steve Orton
> > > Santa Susanna #304
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Charles" <charles at finn.ws>
> > > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:01 AM
> > > Subject: [C38] The Catalina Smile
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Catalina says the infamous "smile" many of us have discovered on our
> > > > boats is due to improper positioning on our cradles when the boat is
> > > >
> > > out
> > >
> > > > of the water. I have fixed (by grinding, filling, gelcoating and
> > > > painting) my smile three times before yearly spring launching.... only
> > > > to have it be there when I haul the boat in the fall. This does not
> > > > rule out what Catalina says as it could be the keel stabilizing after
> > > >
> > > a
> > >
> > > > winter of compression. I do know it is not due to loose keel bolts as
> > > >
> > > I
> > >
> > > > have routinely gone through the rather difficult process of tightening
> > > > (never found a loose one). I also know the smile appears on other
> > > > Catalina models as I have seen it many times here in the north where
> > > >
> > > we
> > >
> > > > all have to haul for the winter.
> > > > Regarding repairs on the smile. While I have done this three times
> > > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > > will probably continue, I do wonder if I am sealing moisture into the
> > > > repair and if this is causing even more of a problem when it freezes.
> > > > Any comments?
> > > >
> > > > Charles Finn
> > > > Mighty Quinn #114
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > > > > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of David L Ryan
> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 6:26 PM
> > > > > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > > > > Subject: [C38] Keel Stub Wood Removal?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been trying to further research this fix without too much
> > > > > success. Perhaps you all can help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is procedure recommended for all Catalina 38s, or is it only
> > > > > recommended when a boat exhibits symptoms?
> > > > >
> > > > > If so, what are the symptoms? The "catalina smile"? Others?
> > > > >
> > > > > Who has had the fix done to their boat? Has anyone done it
> > > > > themselves? Any advice or cautions? Did the procedure correct the
> > > > > problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > -David
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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