[C38] DEATH ROLE

Tue Jun 10 19:42:38 EDT 2008

Joe,
  Seems you know about our little piece of river, & I thank you for your kind words.
  I have done the Ditch Run crewing in boats ranging from a J-24 to a NM-42, and have  driven my C-38, SNOWBIRD, in the race 3 times, giving me many white-knuckle hours of rock-and-roll, chasing my choked-down chute DDW through that narrow, twisty, channel.
  As to the better man--I suspect not.  Without great, experienced crew, it's just not possible in this type of boat, no matter how well you think you can drive.  However, with good equipment and crew, most experienced folks do just fine.  As we say, it's just "70 miles of fun"! 
  glen

Joseph Launie <jlaunie at cox.net> wrote:
  Glen,
    Don't tell me you have done the Delta Ditch run in a C-38?  If  you have you are a far better man than me Magee. Joe Launie, Macavity Commodore

Glen Robinson wrote:     Bobster,
  Congrats on your boat!  You will love it more, the more you sail.
  As always, Phil Gay is on the money, and I offer futher musings (with the presumption that you are somewhat a novice.  If not, ignore, & this may benefit others):
  The C-38 is a typical PHRF-type hull: wide in the middle, pinched at the stern.  This configuration results in a very unstable condition when dead downwind.  This is exacerbated by the fact that these are not planing designs, so they only go 8-10, to maybe12, or so, knots when surfing a wave.  Max.  Period.  (I know, I know:  Someone out there has done--or heard reliable reports of--15, or 20, or more??).  
  In my own experience, (28 years of racing IOR types in SF Bay, Pacific Offshore, and limited-water sailing areas in the San Joaquin Delta), when we are going max speed for the conditions & the breeze tries to push us faster, if we're DDW, the hull just digs a deeper hole in the water, & the death rolls begin--where the chute oscillates side to side, tilting the mast one way, then the other.  If not controlled, this worsens, until--WE BROACH!  (Sometimes after only 1 or 2 oscillations).
  Hopefully, it's a windward broach, & we can dump the spinnaker sheet, the main sheet AND THE VANG! (if timely, these steps may even save from the broach) then pump the rudder to drive the bow back downwind, crank it all in and do it again!  And Again! And Again! (Multiple broaches are not recommended--for obvious reasons).
  The leeward Broach is to be avoided!  Period!  The boom comes across dangerously. Sails are backed, the boat has the wrong side down, and often is pinned that way until after much corrective action.  It's really slow, and can be damaging, as well as dangerous!
  My experience has shown the following to be effective, but ask around, and if any of it makes sense to you, then try some, yourself.
  A) To prevent death rolls, if it's really puffing, REDUCE SAIL.
  These boats only go so fast, & if they hit max speed with a polled out 110 in 25 knots, why fly the chute??  I have comfortably sailed past many out-of-control, overpowered spinnaker boats this way (occasionally, old age and experience prevails over youth and testosterone).
  B) If it's marginal wind conditions & competition dictates the spinnaker, REACH UP a bit.  Sailing higher than DDW is MUCH more stable--especially for an inexperienced helmsman.  Remember to drive it down in the blasts (you already know not to sail by the lee).
  C) Finally, if you must carry the chute DDW for whatever reason, to minimize the death rolls you can do 2 things:
  1) CHOKE IT DOWN!  Trim both spinnaker guys hard (or super-trim the twings, as appropriate).  This a) pulls the corners down, b) depowers the chute, and c) limits its side-to-side travel.  In addition, you can:
  2) CHASE THE CHUTE!  The driver must watch the chute as it moves from side-to-side, and simply drive toward the chute.  With a little practice and feel, the driver can anticipate the chute and even lead it slightly, which actually can stop the oscillations.
  Remember, the C-38 has a lot of sail, and a long, thin rudder, which is easily overpowered.  In extreme conditions, the helmsman (as well as the crew) must be ahead of what's happening to be in control.
  Also, if loaded up for long periods, the rudder can cavitate, leading to loss of steering control.  This can be minimized by aggressively wiggling the helm from time to time to reduce the cavitation.
  Lastly--but perhaps most importantly:  The less experienced one's crew, the more conservative one should sail.  I have sailed (J-35) carrying a full spinnaker in 40 knots very fast!--and very safe!--with a top crew; but have experienced over $20,000 damage (Cal 39) in less than 25 knots with a green crew.  In the latter case, we also had several minor injuries (Good luck, good anticipation and excellent reaction by the few experienced crew prevented a far worse scenario).
  In offering these suggestions--gleaned from many hours with much better sailors than I--I also recommend that you read all you can, talk to as many as you can, crew with experienced sailors, try a few things, and decide for yourself.
  Again, Congratulations on your new love,
  Glen
  C-38 SNOWBIRD
  Lodi, CA

  Phil Gay <eyriepg at comcast.net> wrote:
                My only experience with the death roll was when I was traveling south in Saratoga Passage under engine.  I noticed a little wind off the stern and wanted to try my recently acquired spinnaker.  I didn’t want to bother with the main and rigged lines for the spinnaker.  I didn’t notice that the wind had increased and there were now white caps.  Soon after I hoisted the spinnaker, the boat started rolling to port and then to starboard.  Each time it rolled and started turning, it took more helm to correct it.  I quickly got the spinnaker down and decided to never hoist the spinnaker without a main to blanket the wind if the situation gets out of hand.

  Phil Gay
  C38 049 Que Linda
  Everett, WA

      From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of bobster94
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 5:01 PM
To: listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: [C38] DEATH ROLE

    I am new to the Cat 38 world. I am in love with this boat. She has such classic lines, beautiful! However, I have heard tell she can be a real handful downwind. Can someone educate me about the term, "Death Role".

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