[C38] vibration(alden)
Tom T.
tdtron at earthlink.net
Wed Jul 8 12:51:22 EDT 2009
I'm behind on my emails and didn't see Alden Andre's reply before I added
to Steve Smolinske's reply.
I see Alden also suspects a bent prop shaft as I do.
GMTA
By the way, when I put a flex coupler and flex flywheel dampner, I had a
stainless shaft made. My bronze shaft was OK but I wanted the stronger
stainless shaft so it wouldn't be as easy to bend if or when I manage to
damage my prop.
Tom Troncalli
> [Original Message]
> From: alden Andre <alden at clifforddevelopmentgroup.com>
> To: <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: 7/8/2009 11:00:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [C38] vibration(alden)
>
> I think you have a bent prop shaft. It is what probably loosend your
strut in the first place. Or it could be a out of balance prop. I have the
standard fixed two blade prop and have no vibration at low or high power
settings.your going to have to haul again to check them out.
> alden
> Sent from my Windows Mobile® phone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listserve-request at catalina38.org <listserve-request at catalina38.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 6:02 AM
> To: listserve at catalina38.org <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 5, Issue 169
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Vibration (littlebreeze at comcast.net)
> 2. Re: Vibration (Bob Porter)
> 3. Re: Alternator and charging (Craig Steinkraus)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 06:12:24 +0000 (UTC)
> From: littlebreeze at comcast.net
> Subject: [C38] Vibration
> To: "Listserve, Catalina" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<810392565.1381601247033544444.JavaMail.root at sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.com
cast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I recently had my boat in for a bottom job. While there the strut was
found to be loose. I had the strut repaired and now there is a vibration.
At first the vibration was so violent to broke the hose clamps on the
packing gland hose. Then the engine was realigned and most the vibration
was gone. The vibration which is left is still enough to vibrate the
steering pedestal. When I bought the boat 5 years ago I brought it up the
coast on the motor and there wasn't a vibration and when I took to have the
bottom repaired there wasn't a vibration. Now it is logical to believe that
the vibration was there you just couldn't feel it because the strut was
loose and now that it is rigid again you can feel the vibration. The other
thing which is of concern is that the propeller is mounted within 1/4 inch
of the strut, but there is another Catalina 38 in the same yard and the
propeller is approximately 1 foot from the strut. (of course is has been a
month and I did not measure the distanc
> e between the strut and the prop). I think there could be a correlation
between the location of the prop/strut and the vibration.
>
> So I have several questions. First, for those of you who have had you
boats out of the water recently, what is the distance between your prop and
the strut. Second, any Ideas on the vibration? Third, I know some of you
have had to deal with vibrations in the past, what have you done to rectify
your problems?
>
> Kerry Grimes
> Littlebreeze, 139
> San Francisco
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 05:45:07 -0400
> From: "Bob Porter" <hiawatha at localnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Vibration
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Message-ID: <344077E67B574521B499DDD30A9EB4E6 at YOUR8D60784E1D>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Is there anything that could have changed the balance of your prop. I has
a martec folding prop with a slight imbalance and it caused quite a
vibration, dependent on speed.
>
> Bob Porter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: littlebreeze at comcast.net
> To: Listserve, Catalina
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:12 AM
> Subject: [C38] Vibration
>
>
> I recently had my boat in for a bottom job. While there the strut was
found to be loose. I had the strut repaired and now there is a vibration.
At first the vibration was so violent to broke the hose clamps on the
packing gland hose. Then the engine was realigned and most the vibration
was gone. The vibration which is left is still enough to vibrate the
steering pedestal. When I bought the boat 5 years ago I brought it up the
coast on the motor and there wasn't a vibration and when I took to have the
bottom repaired there wasn't a vibration. Now it is logical to believe
that the vibration was there you just couldn't feel it because the strut
was loose and now that it is rigid again you can feel the vibration. The
other thing which is of concern is that the propeller is mounted within 1/4
inch of the strut, but there is another Catalina 38 in the same yard and
the propeller is approximately 1 foot from the strut. (of course is has
been a month and I did not measure
> the distance between the strut and the prop). I think there could be a
correlation between the location of the prop/strut and the vibration.
>
> So I have several questions. First, for those of you who have had you
boats out of the water recently, what is the distance between your prop and
the strut. Second, any Ideas on the vibration? Third, I know some of you
have had to deal with vibrations in the past, what have you done to rectify
your problems?
>
> Kerry Grimes
> Littlebreeze, 139
> San Francisco
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 07:59:55 -0500
> From: "Craig Steinkraus" <Navion at Charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Message-ID: <60D9FAE0CE9A49B582F030F3BF24E1EA at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Maybe after I get to the boat and look at the wiring, it will be
apparent, but as I sit here the question I have is why run the alt. output
to the starter first?
>
>
> Craig Steinkraus
> "Wings"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Smolinske
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
> Max I do run it from the alternator to the starter, and then from the
starter to the battery switch.
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 AM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
>
> HI Steve,
>
>
> Now it makes sense. I thought you run the wire from the alt directly to
the starter, and I was thinking how you were using the new switch, but if
you have it directly hooked up to a battery bank it should be working great.
> I have almost the same setup but the alt wire runs directly to the
house bank. I was going to use the same ACR, but since I have different
battery technologies I went for the echo charge(just 15 amps, but enough
for a starting battery)..
> I agree with you that the charging system has never worked as good as
with this setup.
>
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
> 2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>
> Max,
>
> ACR stands for Automatic Charging Relay, it combines the two banks
during charging and isolates during discharge. Mine is hooked up so that
when the engine starts it goes to the start bank first and then after 30
seconds connects the two banks so the voltage equalizes and then charges
both. http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386
>
>
> On the bluse sea switch
http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6011_web_version.pdf it
isolates the two banks except when you need to combine for emergencies.
Rather than choices for which bank to use the old 1, 2 or 1&2 it only has
on and combine. In the on position both banks are providing power one to
house one to start but are never combined unless you choose the combine
option. To charge all you do is select on and start the engine.
>
> Steve
>
>
> <http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto
> Sent: Mon 7/6/2009 5:14 PM
>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Just a couple of questions:
>
> What's that ACR is this some kind of isolator or charging relay???
> I have this switch on Estancia, but in my case the current from the
alternator runs directly to the house battery bank, and a Xantrex Echo
Charger tranfers current from this bank to the starting battery.
>
> How do you charge the second battery bank??? You have to use the Blue
Seas switch on "emergency start" to charge both banks at the same time??
>
> Regards,
>
> Max
>
>
>
> 2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>
>
> Conclusion for everyone on this item, I took Tom's advice and
what a difference in the system. I ended up having the alternator and
starter tested and rebuilt ($125) new brushes, regulator and contacts.
When hooking it back up I ran current from the alternator directly to the
starter then on to the battery switch. The wires that use to lead the
current up to the ampmeter and then back to the starter (red and orange
#10) one was abandonded and the other powers the new voltmeter with an
inline fuse. I also replaced the battery switch with Blue Seas newer
switch that completly isolates the house and start banks with the exception
of emergency combine, just one choice on or off for normal operation, no
more 1, 2 or 1&2 to confuse the admiral. It also turns out that the
problem most likely was an incorrectly installed ACR, there are two
important small wires that allow the ACR to sense both banks. Even though
the ACR wiring was probably the culprit it is a nice
> feeling after tearing things apart to realize that all that current
from the alternator is no longer going through two undersized wires and a
suspect wire harness but instead is being carried by a battery cable to the
batteries.
>
> Steve
> Peregrine #312
> Seattle
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Tom T.
> Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 3:27 PM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
>
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> You are correct. The 30 amp fuse in your charging circuit is
too small to carry the load if the batteries are discharged or you are
running other high load applications. I expect they may be using a small
fuse to try to reduce the maximum load on the wiring harness which has been
a problem in the past.
>
> To carry a high amperage load to your engine control panel is
not only a lot of electrical loss but it can be dangerous if your harness
connections are corroded. There have been many original engine control
harnesses burned up because of the high load on the amp meter wires in that
harness.
>
> The amp meter isn't needed anyway. You can have an amp meter
showing a lot of amps but if your battery bank is shorted, you will only be
creating heat on the harness and load on your engine but a shorted battery
will never charge with the amp meter giving you a false sense of security.
A volt meter gives a better idea of your charging and battery conditions.
>
> A more practical solution to the amp meter is to replace the
original amp meter with a marine grade volt meter. To do this, you run the
output of the alternator directly to your battery banks and use the
original wires to the amp meter to feed a new volt meter. You can run the
feed to the volt meter from the positive side of the starter solenoid since
it is very close to the alternator making a very easy conversion.
>
> The volt meter conversion is a very good and highly
recommended upgrade. It will make your boat safer and your alternator will
perform better because more output will go to the battery bank instead of
wasted in heat loss in the harness and possible faulty connectors.
>
> Fuse the wire that you run from the solenoid to the new volt
meter. There will be very little current on that wire now so even a small
fuse like 5 amps will do fine. The fuse should be very close to the
alternator for safety.
>
> It has been a long time since I made this modification on my
boat but I believe the harness wire used for the volt meter conversion is
an orange wire. I wrote an article for Mainsheet several years ago about
this conversion but I don't remember what year or month it was but I'm sure
I can find a draft copy in my archives if you need it, just let me know and
I'll look for it.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Tom Troncalli
> Renata (Hull #95)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Steve Smolinske
<mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
> Sent: 6/29/2009 4:35:25 PM
> Subject: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
> Tom T, I'm hoping you can add some insight on this.
I suspected my system wasn't charging so I took the alternator and starter
off and had them both tested, they are fine, and since there off I took the
precaution to have the regulator, brushes and contacts replaced. Going
over the wiring diagram for the M30 They call out #10 wire with a 30 amp
fuse inline from the amp meter to the Starter Solenoid. Knowing that a
regulator varies charge based on battery condition/charge and rpm isn't a
30 amp fuse undersized, and why a fuse anyway, shouldn't the wire be sized
correctly to handle the highest load the system would see.
>
>
> Steve Smolinske
> President
>
> 4M Company, Inc.
> 15660 Nelson Place South
> Seattle, WA 98188
> 425-227-4500
>
> www.rainierrubber.com <http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this email may be
confidential and/or proprietary in nature and is intended for the recipient
of the email only. Please treat all information contained in this and any
communication with the 4M Company as such. Thank you.
>
> P Before printing, think about ENVIRONMENTAL
responsibility
>
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>
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> --
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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