[C38] vibration another thought(alden)

Wed Jul 8 22:22:35 EDT 2009

Barnacles on the prop and shaft give me fits. Lots of vibration and no
performance.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:18 PM, alden Andre <
alden at clifforddevelopmentgroup.com> wrote:

> Just another thought you probably replaced your zincs when you did the
> bottom. Maybe its out of balance or not tight. alden
>
> Sent from my Windows Mobile® phone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
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> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:41 AM
> To: listserve at catalina38.org <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 5, Issue 176
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>   1. Re: vibration(alden) (littlebreeze at comcast.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:40:55 +0000 (UTC)
> From: littlebreeze at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [C38] vibration(alden)
> To: tdtron at earthlink.net, Catalina 38 Listserve
>        <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> 713797733.1533091247074855340.JavaMail.root at sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Okay, all that being said, when they realigned the engine one of the steps
> they used was to put a dial indicator on the very little exposed portion of
> the prop shaft which is behind the engine and before the packing gland. They
> said there is no indication the prop shaft is bent. I for one have a call
> into Catalina so that I might purchase a new shaft prior to pulling the boat
> again. I thought I would just replace the while shaft while it was out and
> have the prop checked for balance. I'm also concerned that the shaft is too
> short adding to the problem. Now the thing that did not occur to me was bad
> motor mounts. One or two bad mounts would allow for proper engine alignment,
> but might tend to amplify the natural engine harmonics of a three cylinder
> engine. Any idea of what a bad motor mount looks like other than the rubber
> falling on my feet. I guess having two people on board while running the
> engine at speed and taking a look at the movement in the mount would
> probably be th
>  e best way.
>
> Kerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:51:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [C38] vibration(alden)
>
> I'm behind on my emails and didn't see Alden Andre's reply before I added
> to Steve Smolinske's reply. I see Alden also suspects a bent prop shaft as I
> do. GMTA By the way, when I put a flex coupler and flex flywheel dampner, I
> had a stainless shaft made. My bronze shaft was OK but I wanted the stronger
> stainless shaft so it wouldn't be as easy to bend if or when I manage to
> damage my prop. Tom Troncalli > [Original Message] > From: alden Andre > To:
> > Date: 7/8/2009 11:00:56 AM > Subject: Re: [C38] vibration(alden) > > I
> think you have a bent prop shaft. It is what probably loosend your strut in
> the first place. Or it could be a out of balance prop. I have the standard
> fixed two blade prop and have no vibration at low or high power
> settings.your going to have to haul again to check them out. > alden > Sent
> from my Windows Mobile? phone. > > -----Original Message----- > From:
> listserve-request at catalina38.org > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 6:02 AM
> > To: listserve at catalina38.o
>  rg > Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 5, Issue 169 > > Send Listserve
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> listserve-request at catalina38.org > > You can reach the person managing the
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> your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Listserve
> digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Vibration (
> littlebreeze at comcast.net) > 2. Re: Vibration (Bob Porter) > 3. Re:
> Alternator and charging (Craig Steinkraus) > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >
> Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 06:12:24 +0000 (UTC) > From:
> littlebreeze at comcast.net > Subject: [C38] Vibration > To: "Listserve,
> Catalina" > Message-ID: > <810392565.1381601247033544444.JavaMail.root at sz01
>  52a.emeryville.ca.mail.com cast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="utf-8" > > I recently had my boat in for a bottom job. While there
> the strut was found to be loose. I had the strut repaired and now there is a
> vibration. At first the vibration was so violent to broke the hose clamps on
> the packing gland hose. Then the engine was realigned and most the vibration
> was gone. The vibration which is left is still enough to vibrate the
> steering pedestal. When I bought the boat 5 years ago I brought it up the
> coast on the motor and there wasn't a vibration and when I took to have the
> bottom repaired there wasn't a vibration. Now it is logical to believe that
> the vibration was there you just couldn't feel it because the strut was
> loose and now that it is rigid again you can feel the vibration. The other
> thing which is of concern is that the propeller is mounted within 1/4 inch
> of the strut, but there is another Catalina 38 in the same yard and the
> propeller is approximately
>  1 foot from the strut. (of course is has been a month and I did not
> measure the distanc > e between the strut and the prop). I think there could
> be a correlation between the location of the prop/strut and the vibration. >
> > So I have several questions. First, for those of you who have had you
> boats out of the water recently, what is the distance between your prop and
> the strut. Second, any Ideas on the vibration? Third, I know some of you
> have had to deal with vibrations in the past, what have you done to rectify
> your problems? > > Kerry Grimes > Littlebreeze, 139 > San Francisco > > >
> -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 8 Jul
> 2009 05:45:07 -0400 > From: "Bob Porter" > Subject: Re: [C38] Vibration >
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" > Message-ID:
> <344077E67B574521B499DDD30A9EB4E6 at YOUR8D60784E1D> > Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Is there anything that could
>  have changed the balance of your prop. I has a martec folding prop with a
> slight imbalance and it caused quite a vibration, dependent on speed. > >
> Bob Porter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: littlebreeze at comcast.net> To: Listserve, Catalina > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:12 AM >
> Subject: [C38] Vibration > > > I recently had my boat in for a bottom job.
> While there the strut was found to be loose. I had the strut repaired and
> now there is a vibration. At first the vibration was so violent to broke the
> hose clamps on the packing gland hose. Then the engine was realigned and
> most the vibration was gone. The vibration which is left is still enough to
> vibrate the steering pedestal. When I bought the boat 5 years ago I brought
> it up the coast on the motor and there wasn't a vibration and when I took to
> have the bottom repaired there wasn't a vibration. Now it is logical to
> believe that the vibration was there you just couldn't feel it because the
> strut was loose and n
>  ow that it is rigid again you can feel the vibration. The other thing
> which is of concern is that the propeller is mounted within 1/4 inch of the
> strut, but there is another Catalina 38 in the same yard and the propeller
> is approximately 1 foot from the strut. (of course is has been a month and I
> did not measure > the distance between the strut and the prop). I think
> there could be a correlation between the location of the prop/strut and the
> vibration. > > So I have several questions. First, for those of you who have
> had you boats out of the water recently, what is the distance between your
> prop and the strut. Second, any Ideas on the vibration? Third, I know some
> of you have had to deal with vibrations in the past, what have you done to
> rectify your problems? > > Kerry Grimes > Littlebreeze, 139 > San Francisco
> > > > > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>  list > Listserve at catalina38.org >
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> > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 8 Jul
> 2009 07:59:55 -0500 > From: "Craig Steinkraus" > Subject: Re: [C38]
> Alternator and charging > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" > Message-ID:
> <60D9FAE0CE9A49B582F030F3BF24E1EA at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1" > > Maybe after I get to the boat and look at the
> wiring, it will be apparent, but as I sit here the question I have is why
> run the alt. output to the starter first? > > > Craig Steinkraus > "Wings" >
> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Smolinske > To: Catalina 38
> Listserve > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:52 PM > Subject: Re: [C38]
> Alternator and charging > > > Max I do run it from the alternator to the
> starter, and then from the starter to the battery switch. > > > >
> -----------------------
>  ----------------------------------------------------- -- > From:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org]
> On Behalf Of Max Soto > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 AM > To: Catalina
> 38 Listserve > Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging > > > > HI Steve,
> > > > Now it makes sense. I thought you run the wire from the alt directly
> to the starter, and I was thinking how you were using the new switch, but if
> you have it directly hooked up to a battery bank it should be working great.
> > I have almost the same setup but the alt wire runs directly to the house
> bank. I was going to use the same ACR, but since I have different battery
> technologies I went for the echo charge(just 15 amps, but enough for a
> starting battery).. > I agree with you that the charging system has never
> worked as good as with this setup. > > > Max > > > > > 2009/7/6 Steve
> Smolinske > > Max, > > ACR stands for Automatic Charging Relay, it combines
> the two banks during chargi
>  ng and isolates during discharge. Mine is hooked up so that when the
> engine starts it goes to the start bank first and then after 30 seconds
> connects the two banks so the voltage equalizes and then charges both.
> http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386 > > > On the bluse
> sea switch
> http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6011_web_version.pdf it
> isolates the two banks except when you need to combine for emergencies.
> Rather than choices for which bank to use the old 1, 2 or 1&2 it only has on
> and combine. In the on position both banks are providing power one to house
> one to start but are never combined unless you choose the combine option. To
> charge all you do is select on and start the engine. > > Steve > > > > >
> ________________________________ > > From:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto > Sent: Mon
> 7/6/2009 5:14 PM > > To: Catalina 38 Listserve > Subject: Re: [C38]
> Alternator and charging > > > Hi Steve, > > Just a couple of questi
>  ons: > > What's that ACR is this some kind of isolator or charging
> relay??? > I have this switch on Estancia, but in my case the current from
> the alternator runs directly to the house battery bank, and a Xantrex Echo
> Charger tranfers current from this bank to the starting battery. > > How do
> you charge the second battery bank??? You have to use the Blue Seas switch
> on "emergency start" to charge both banks at the same time?? > > Regards, >
> > Max > > > > 2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske > > > Conclusion for everyone on this
> item, I took Tom's advice and what a difference in the system. I ended up
> having the alternator and starter tested and rebuilt ($125) new brushes,
> regulator and contacts. When hooking it back up I ran current from the
> alternator directly to the starter then on to the battery switch. The wires
> that use to lead the current up to the ampmeter and then back to the starter
> (red and orange #10) one was abandonded and the other powers the new
> voltmeter with an inline fus
>  e. I also replaced the battery switch with Blue Seas newer switch that
> completly isolates the house and start banks with the exception of emergency
> combine, just one choice on or off for normal operation, no more 1, 2 or 1&2
> to confuse the admiral. It also turns out that the problem most likely was
> an incorrectly installed ACR, there are two important small wires that allow
> the ACR to sense both banks. Even though the ACR wiring was probably the
> culprit it is a nice > feeling after tearing things apart to realize that
> all that current from the alternator is no longer going through two
> undersized wires and a suspect wire harness but instead is being carried by
> a battery cable to the batteries. > > Steve > Peregrine #312 > Seattle > >
> ________________________________ > > From:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Tom T. > Sent: Mon 6/29/2009
> 3:27 PM > To: Catalina 38 Listserve > Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and
> charging > > > > > Hello Steve, > > You are correct. The
>  30 amp fuse in your charging circuit is too small to carry the load if the
> batteries are discharged or you are running other high load applications. I
> expect they may be using a small fuse to try to reduce the maximum load on
> the wiring harness which has been a problem in the past. > > To carry a high
> amperage load to your engine control panel is not only a lot of electrical
> loss but it can be dangerous if your harness connections are corroded. There
> have been many original engine control harnesses burned up because of the
> high load on the amp meter wires in that harness. > > The amp meter isn't
> needed anyway. You can have an amp meter showing a lot of amps but if your
> battery bank is shorted, you will only be creating heat on the harness and
> load on your engine but a shorted battery will never charge with the amp
> meter giving you a false sense of security. A volt meter gives a better idea
> of your charging and battery conditions. > > A more practical solution to
> the amp met
>  er is to replace the original amp meter with a marine grade volt meter. To
> do this, you run the output of the alternator directly to your battery banks
> and use the original wires to the amp meter to feed a new volt meter. You
> can run the feed to the volt meter from the positive side of the starter
> solenoid since it is very close to the alternator making a very easy
> conversion. > > The volt meter conversion is a very good and highly
> recommended upgrade. It will make your boat safer and your alternator will
> perform better because more output will go to the battery bank instead of
> wasted in heat loss in the harness and possible faulty connectors. > > Fuse
> the wire that you run from the solenoid to the new volt meter. There will be
> very little current on that wire now so even a small fuse like 5 amps will
> do fine. The fuse should be very close to the alternator for safety. > > It
> has been a long time since I made this modification on my boat but I believe
> the harness wire used f
>  or the volt meter conversion is an orange wire. I wrote an article for
> Mainsheet several years ago about this conversion but I don't remember what
> year or month it was but I'm sure I can find a draft copy in my archives if
> you need it, just let me know and I'll look for it. > > Good luck, > > Tom
> Troncalli > Renata (Hull #95) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From:
> Steve Smolinske > To: Catalina 38 Listserve > Sent: 6/29/2009 4:35:25 PM >
> Subject: [C38] Alternator and charging > > > Tom T, I'm hoping you can add
> some insight on this. I suspected my system wasn't charging so I took the
> alternator and starter off and had them both tested, they are fine, and
> since there off I took the precaution to have the regulator, brushes and
> contacts replaced. Going over the wiring diagram for the M30 They call out
> #10 wire with a 30 amp fuse inline from the amp meter to the Starter
> Solenoid. Knowing that a regulator varies charge based on battery
> condition/charge and rpm isn't a 30 amp
>  fuse undersized, and why a fuse anyway, shouldn't the wire be sized
> correctly to handle the highest load the system would see. > > > Steve
> Smolinske > President > > 4M Company, Inc. > 15660 Nelson Place South >
> Seattle, WA 98188 > 425-227-4500 > > www.rainierrubber.com > > > > The
> information contained in this email may be confidential and/or proprietary
> in nature and is intended for the recipient of the email only. Please treat
> all information contained in this and any communication with the 4M Company
> as such. Thank you. > > P Before printing, think about ENVIRONMENTAL
> responsibility > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > >
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.364 / Virus Database:
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> > -- > Max Soto > C38 #198 ESTANCIA > Puntarenas, Costa Rica > > Checked by
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-- 
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