[C38] CNG propane conversion. lines?
Tom T.
tdtron at earthlink.net
Tue Dec 22 21:15:08 EST 2009
Thanks Charles,
I didn't figure on the thermostatic valve being the difference in similar
appliances, one for natural gas and another for propane. I was trying to
find the difference because the appliances I looked at and worked with
looked identical. I can't help but to wonder how much problem it would be
to run propane on a natural gas thermostat since I've evidently done it
already and my conversions worked fine.
Tom Troncalli
> [Original Message]
> From: Charles Finn <charles at finn.ws>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: 12/22/2009 6:40:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [C38] CNG propane conversion. lines?
>
> CNG lines cannot be used for propane. Besides not being rated for
> propane, the existing lines are not long enough to mount the tank and
> codes won't allow joints in propane lines within the boat.
>
> Regarding explosions: In the fire service, we know whether a house has
> blown up from propane or natural gas by figuring whether the walls are
> blown out at the bottom or the top of the house (bottom means propane,
> top means natural gas). Please note they both blow up houses!
>
> I also changed out my thermostatic gas valve when I made the conversion.
> As Tom was explaining, CNG is a relatively high volume gas per BTU
> compared to propane. This means the thermostatic valve for CNG will
> allow greater flow to the jets than a propane valve allows. I would note
> that when I have converted stoves in homes, I have not replaced the
> valve. However, the Seaward folks were pretty adamant about that part of
> the retrofit and when it comes to something that might blow up my
> boat... I went with the experts.
>
> Regarding the tank location: I went with an aluminum tank and hung it
> off the stern rail. Aluminum because the steel one began rusting almost
> immediately. Stern rail because propane lockers are very expensive and I
> really could not give up the space in the port locker! Don't forget you
> will need a remote propane shut off solenoid!
> A bonus for removing the CNG high pressure setup from the port locker is
> being able to saw out the floor of the locker, which really does make it
> easier to access the engine and drive train. I also have plumbed my
> grill to the big tank, which is much more convenient and safer than
> having a bunch of lightweight propane bottles knocking around the boat.
>
> Charles Finn
> Mighty Quinn #114
> Great Lakes
>
>
> D. R. Strong wrote:
> > Tom: Thanks for the informative post. We have grey plastic lines that
> > carry the CNG from the tank to the stove. Is not a different kind of
> > line needed for propane?
> > regards, Don
> >
> >
> > Tom T. wrote:
> >> Hello gentlemen,
> >> I can't imagine a problem converting from CNG to propane. I've done
> >> several natural gas to propane conversions on home heating units and
> >> with them, the only thing you do is reduce the jet size to make a
> >> more oxidizing (lean) flame, otherwise you will have a reducing
> >> (rich) flame if you don't reduce the jet size. I do heating and air
> >> work on the side and have done several home conversions from natural
> >> gas to propane and vise versa on heaters and hot water heaters.
> >> I have never bought jets for a natural gas to propane conversion. I
> >> use a small hand held collet chuck drill bit holder with a set of
> >> small drill bits. I start by finding a drill bit that fits the old
> >> jet exactly and make a note of it. I then solder up the old jet and
> >> drill through the solder with a smaller drill bit.
> >> If there is any yellow in the flame, I repeat the above procedure
> >> going to a smaller drill bit and check the color of the flame again.
> >> I repeat the above procedure until the flame is totally blue with no
> >> yellow showing. A blue flame indicates complete combustion with
> >> absolutely minimal O2.
> >> Some stoves, hot water heaters, and HVAC central home units offer
> >> their products with conversion jets to make the conversion from
> >> propane to natural gas or visa versa but sometimes there are small
> >> other differences between the two product lines other than just the
> >> jet. Whatever the differences are, they must be minimal because from
> >> comparing two seemingly identical space heaters for different gasses,
> >> I could not see any differences other than the jet sizes but the
> >> manufacturer listed totally different part numbers for the two units
> >> so there must be some small difference.
> >> As simple as a boat range is, I doubt there would be any problem
> >> changing the jet size and trying it. If the procedure wasn't
> >> satisfactory, just drill out the solder and return the range back to
> >> stock.
> >> I would be highly surprised if changing the jets to a smaller size
> >> wouldn't produce a perfect conversion but since the conversion is so
> >> simple and cheap, why not try it if your range and oven is in good
> >> shape otherwise?
> >> Not only is propane cheaper and easier to find than CNG, it also
> >> provides more BTU's for more efficient tank efficiency.
> >> One property of CNG that was highly praised in the 70's when it first
> >> became popular for boats was that CNG is lighter than air and would
> >> not concentrate in bilges making shipboard use safer. In actual
> >> practice, some boats have been blown up with CNG from overhead cabin
> >> lights making little or no difference in actual safety experiences
> >> between the two gasses in enclosed vessels like ours reducing the
> >> popularity of CNG.
> >> Anyway, that's my two cents. As I type this, I'm sitting here keeping
> >> warm near a non-vented gas space heater converted from propane to
> >> natural gas. Propane to natural gas is an easier conversion than visa
> >> versa because all I needed to do was enlarge the jet instead of
> >> making it smaller making soldering the jet orifice unnecessary.
> >> Tom Troncalli
> >> Renata #95
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* David Epstein <mailto:davidepstein at seicontrol.com>
> >> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
> >> *Sent:* 12/22/2009 1:23:11 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [C38] New Owner w/ CNG question
> >>
> >> Hi Jay,
> >>
> >> Congratulations on your "new" boat, and welcome to the C38
> >> family. I know Broad Reach very well. We used to race against
> >> them, and I even raced on it a couple of times.
> >>
> >> I have never had any problems finding CNG. You can get it a gas
> >> dock that is not too far from San Diego Yacht Club (SDYC) in
> >> Shelter Island in the SD harbor. I think it might be called
> >> Pearsons Marine Fuels. You don't have to get your tank filled,
> >> you just remove yours, exchange it for a full one, and you are on
> >> your way. In fact, I always try to get a tank when we are in SD
> >> as they seem to put a bit more gas in the tanks than they do in
> >> Marina del Rey. As I recall, you get as much as 2300 lbs, and we
> >> are lucky to get 1900-2000 lbs in MdR.
> >>
> >> Personally I would not consider changing to Propane, unless you
> >> are planning to spend a lot of time in Mexico or other areas
> >> outside So Cal. CNG is lighter than air, making it much safer
> >> than Propane, which will settle in the bottom of the boat.
> >>
> >> Let me know if I can be of any help to you, and again, welcome.
> >>
> >> David Epstein
> >> C38 #122, SuperStar
> >> Marina del Rey, CA
> >>
> >> At 01:17 PM 12/21/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> Greetings All. We recently purchased C-38 Hull # 311 “Broad
> >>> Reach” with the original CNG system. The boat is going to be a
> >>> San Diego boat and I was wonder what other So Cal owners have
> >>> done to fill their tank. Is there an exchange site around, do
> >>> you use an adaptor and fill at the auto stations, or has
> >>> everyone given up and converted to propane? Love the boat
> >>> overall, but this CNG issue may be a hassle for weekend
> >>> cruising. Would also like to hear from other C-38 owners in the
> >>> area to exchange ideas and information. We can be contacted off
> >>> list at jsorensen at novarx.com <mailto:jsorensen at novarx.com>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>> Jay & Dorothy Sorensen
> >>> C-38 #311 “Broad Reach”
> >>> San Diego, CA
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Listserve mailing list
> >>> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>
> >> David Epstein
> >> President, Sound Solutions
> >> Chairman, CEA TechHome Division
> >> Member of the CEA Board of Industry Leaders
> >> Member, CEA Division Executive Board
> >> Tel 310.398.0032
> >> Fax 310.398.0036
> >> www.soundsolutions.com
> >> <http://www.soundsolutions.com/>www.ce.org
> >>
> >> <http://www.ce.org/>
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Listserve mailing list
> >> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Donald R. Strong
> > Professor
> > Section of Evolution and Ecology
> > University of California Davis
> > 95616
> > 530 752 7886
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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>
>
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