[C38] Salon Shelving Options

Max Soto maxsoto at gmail.com
Wed Dec 1 14:51:30 EST 2010 

Jay, it's all clear now!!! Since I don't have a bowsprit, I guess I should just keep jibing the a-sail on front, but I do need to install one some day soon, since my assay is luff53 and foot30, so the bowsprit will compensate for the bigger sail area. Then, I will see which jibing method works best for Estancia. 
Joe, do you have some close pics of your Bowsprit and it is attached???
Thanks!
Max
 

Sent from my iPod

On Dec 1, 2010, at 1:26 PM, "Jay Sorensen" <jsorensen at novarx.com> wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion Max.  I was not very clear.
>  
> I think you have it right in your last line.  All jibes are outside the fore triangle/forestay.  You can either run the continuous sheet between the tack line and the forestay or in front of/outside the tack line.  If you run it in front of the tack line and jibe, the sail folds over itself (in front of the luff) in an outward/forward manner.  If you run the sheet between the tack line and the forestay the sail folds inside the luff.  Does that make sense or does it just confuse the matter more??
>  
> At least on the J-120 we found it easier to do an inside jibe.  But some others run it outside, perhaps to minimize the chance of getting the sheet trapped under the spirit pole??
>  
> Jay
>  
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:46 AM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
> OK, thanks for the info on the bow pulpit It's all clear!..I knew that there was a good reason for that shape, and I just wasn't sure wich one was it!!
>  
> In regards to jybing the assy, I just got a little confused.......
>  What's the correct way for a jybe??? I usually do it outside of the bow, around the headstay....It works and I assume that this is the right way, but are there any other way?????  Inside the foretriangle is impossible or not? Or are you guys talking about jybing it between the assy tack on a bowsprit and the headstay (just like on a solent rig)????
>  
> Max
> 
> 2010/12/1 Robert Miller <chapuys at aol.com>
> Hey, Jay.  Where do you keep your boat?  I am at Southwestern Yacht Club.
>  
> Bob Miller “Bolero” #113
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Jay Sorensen
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:07 AM
> 
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
> First, thanks to all who described options for making our shelf storage more secure.  We really appreciate the quick response and excellent suggestions.  Now it’s time to measure and think.
>  
> From crewing as bowman on the J-120 Scamp for many years I have a couple of observations to improve performance of Asyms when racing for anyone who is interested. 
>  
> 1.             If the seas are calm (under 15 knots wind) it is beneficial to ease the tack line to allow the tack to ride apx 1 foot or so above the spirit pole.  This increases the size of the slot between the main and spin and increases the projected area.  In rougher conditions the control associated with having the tack directly on the spirit pole is preferred.
> 2.             It is easier to do an inside jibe vs. an outside jibe.  It may be common sense but we still see boats out there trying to get the sail to loop around the front.
> 3.             When jibing, bear down gently, ease the working spin sheet as the helmsman bears down and don’t start bringing in the new sheet until the clew is afore the headstay.  Then completely ease, and I mean completely blow, the old sheet while bringing in the new.  Waiting until the tack is afore the headstay makes all the difference.  Otherwise you’re just fighting it too much.  Practice this a couple of times and you will be an expert.  It’s very intuitive.  The sail will practically fold itself in half.  Very cool.
> 4.             Watch the spin sheets and make sure they do not get trapped under, or around, the spirit pole.  It’s not pretty when the tack line and lazy sheet are trapped.  Trust me on that…………
> 5.             Loose is fast!  We always try to fly the asym with 1-3 panels folded over on the lazy side (speed curls) and constantly play the sheet to maintain that shape.  I don’t know why it works but it does.  I’m sure there is some aeronautical engineer out there who could explain it.
> 6.             If you drop the asym using the forward hatch and bag, always drop on the port side of the forestay as all of the lines will be ready to run for the next hoist.  Provided all you are doing is standard windward leeward courses and bear away sets!  That is probably the best thing about using asyms!  Even if you have to do weather douse, just bear down to ease the load on the spin and manhandle it around the forestay using the lazy sheet.  Be sure to keep the foot out of the water!  But most C-38’s won’t be dropping down the forward hatch, right?  So do you re-rig after every douse?
>  
> Wow, that was long winded.  Sorry about that.
>  
> Jay Sorensen
> C-38, #311 Broad Reach
> San Diego, CA
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Steve Smolinske
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:11 AM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: RE: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
> Max,
>  
> The pulpit also helps to move the chute forward away from the boat opening up the slot between the main and spinnaker making it more efficient.   Lots of boats will use the J length spinnaker pole rather than tacking off of the bow.  Its also not uncommon to loose the backstay all the way and pull the mast forward with a jib or spinnaker halyard attached to the bow, to help get a  little more distance in the slot.    Another method for jybing is to run the lazy sheet around the stay, fall off and use the main to help collapse the chute then jybing it over in front of the stay.   The polars for our boats show that a poled asym has almost the identically same curve as a symetric chute (not sure Im sold on that though as asyms tend to have less area). Our asym is a narrow shouldered A3ish design.  It was built with cruising in mind and ease of use, we have a sock for it which makes it very easy to deploy, takedown and even jybe sometimes depending on weather.   The best we have done with ours is about 7.8 in 20 knots of breeze (its only about 900 sq/ft of area).  
>  
> Steve
> #312 Peregrine
> Seattle
>  
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Joseph Launie
> Sent: Tue 11/30/2010 11:18 PM
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
> 
> Max.
>     The assymetric chute is much easier to fly. It requires less muscle on the foredeck than the pole. We have added a 3.5 foot Seldon adjustable sprit. When we go to set the assy chute, the tack is hooked up 3.5 feet in front of the bow. The foot of the chute goes into the slot in the bow pulpit rather than having to drape over the top. It holds it in place during the set. If you look at the J-120 or J-105, both of whom have sprits, you will see the top slot for the chute. The sprit makes it much easier to jibe the chute. Joe
> 
> On 11/30/2010 1:27 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>  Joe, what is the benefit of that pulpit style ?? 
> I thought that it was easier to use a spinnaker pole, but what's the advantage with an Assy?been able to reach for the tack shackle on the bow sprit??
> Regards, max
> 
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On Nov 30, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Joseph Launie <jlaunie at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Jay,
>     Not only will our new .5 assym be mast head, it will be a bit longer on the foot because we will take advantage of our 3.5 foot adjustable sprit for a 19 foot J. We are making it with small shoulders so it will be easier to fly in the 3 to 6 wind range. We need horsepower there. Getting it down will be interesting. Joe Launie/ Macavity
> 
> On 11/30/2010 8:15 AM, Jay Sorensen wrote:
> Joe,
>  
> Nice idea changing to a J-120 type of pulpit.  I crewed as bowman on a J-120 here in San Diego and it’s a pleasure to handle asym’s up front using a hatch bag and open pulpit.  A mast head 0.5 asym on a C-38 is going to be HUGE! 
>  
> Jay & Dorothy Sorensen
> C-38 #311 Broad Reach
> San Diego, CA
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Launie
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:44 PM
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
> Phil,
>     Photos of our shelving solution coming on wed. when I am going to the boat to pull the bow pulpit for a make-over. We are changing to a J-120 type pulpit for our assymetric chute. We use our shelves mostly or books and knicknacks. We have slats that slide in place and pull out easily. Works - we will also show our instrument boxes which hid the back of instruments in the cabin side. Joe Launie/Macavity
> 
> On 11/29/2010 10:10 PM, Phil Gay wrote:
> We didn't reinforce the shelves, but mainly put fruits, vegetables, and
> breads in them.  It doesn't seem like things would stay put, they do at
> least up to 30 degrees of heel.  Of course we got more heel the couple of
> times when we ran aground on an outgoing tide.  ;-)  We sometime get a tide
> range of 16 feet in 8 hours.
>  
>  
>  
> Phil Gay
>  
> C38 049 Que Linda
>  
>  
> Everett, WA
>  
>  
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Steve Smolinske
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:15 PM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
>  
>  
> We borrowed the idea from Phil and Linda after seeing how nice they look and
> work and are happy with arrangement.  It allows you to pull out or reach in
> the basket you need without disturbing the others.  Phil how did you
> reinforce the upper shelf?  I've been thinking of epoxying a teak block
> underneath the shelf at the mid point.  
>  
>  
>  
> Steve
>  
> #312 Peregrine
>  
> Seattle
>  
>  
>  
>   _____  
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Phil Gay
> Sent: Mon 11/29/2010 11:41 AM
> To: 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
> Subject: Re: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
> My wife really like to use baskets there.
>  
>  
>  
> Phil Gay
>  
> C38 049 Que Linda
>  
> Everett, WA
>  
>  
>  
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Jay Sorensen
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 11:20 AM
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> Subject: [C38] Salon Shelving Options
>  
>  
>  
> Good Morning All,
>  
>  
>  
> First Mate Dorothy is interested in using the salon shelves for storage of
> items but does not like seeing things fly across the salon when things get
> rough.
>  
>  
>  
> Has anyone added a bungee net, doors, railing, etc. to the shelves to make
> them more functional in rough weather?  It does happen occasionally here in
> San Diego!
>  
>  
>  
> There is a lot of space there but it's completely open.  
>  
>  
>  
> Thanks!
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Jay & Dorothy Sorensen
>  
> C-38 #311 Broad Reach
>  
> San Diego, CA
>  
>   
>  
>  
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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