[C38] Stanchions
Don Strong
drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Fri Jan 28 19:06:42 EST 2011
The toe rail really is not that tough. As well, in salty boats as old
as mine (1980), the toe rail has some indication of chemical
decomposition along the bottom side. I treat my toe rail with care. Like
the rest of this wonderful 30 year old device, I hope it lasts longer
than I last.
Don
On 1/28/11 2:15 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
> Think about pivot point. If there is indeed only two bolts, the only
> thing keeping it from pivoting is compression between the plate and
> the toe rail. The bolts are there simply to provide a leverage point.
> That's what concerns me.
>
> Anders
>
> On 01/28/2011 02:13 PM, Chuck Finn wrote:
>> This type of fitting is used by: C&C, Hunter, PDQ, Bayfield, and
>> Freedom yachts. I think the footprint is the entire toerail, which
>> is significantly stronger than our pad fastened to a plywood
>> deck.... If I was to worry about strength, it would be the shear
>> force exerted on the bolts if the toerail stanchion base is not a
>> good fit with our toerail... I would weld the stanchion to the base
>> rather than rely on the throughbolt. I can also comment on the
>> strength of at least the C&C toerail as I have raced these boats and
>> that means bounced a time or two off the lines and stanchions! Have
>> crewed Hunters as well, but don't remember the stanchion design.
>>
>> I think my next step will be to contact Garhauer as they are reputed
>> to have first made our toerail. I also could easily fabricate my own
>> bases that would incorporate Ander's ideas.
>>
>> But, will it look pretty?
>>
>> Chuck Finn
>> Mighty Quinn #114
>> Great Lakes
>>
>>
>> On 1/28/2011 4:16 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>>> Yeah, I just got a chance to look at this. I think Steve is right
>>> here about a large drop in torsional resistance. However, that being
>>> said, those stanchions forward of the cockpit are not really THAT
>>> strong. I would like to see at least a three bolt design with a
>>> larger outer plate to provide some surface to disperse the torque to
>>> the hull.
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> PS. They say they're used on Freedom 32's however, from pictures, I
>>> can't see anything resembling a toe rail that would support load on
>>> them.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/28/2011 12:42 PM, S Orton wrote:
>>>> Chuck, If I understand the concept correctly, it is a very poor
>>>> structural design. There is no foot print to react the outward
>>>> cantilever force on the stantion- you need a four bolt pattern to
>>>> react this force in all directions and I only saw two fasteners
>>>> parallel to the toe rail.
>>>> Cheers, Steve O
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:27:31 -0500
>>>> From: charles at finn.ws
>>>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>
>>>> Max,
>>>> Here is the rigrite url:
>>>> http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail
>>>> <http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail>
>>>>
>>>> As you can see, this would put the stanchion on the outside edge of
>>>> our toerail and would eliminate the base. This would result in a
>>>> lot of room on the deck. I am thinking of using two of the bases
>>>> for the gate and then moving forward. My issue about this would
>>>> look is that I will have to connect to the stern rails and bow
>>>> pulpit, which would remain as they are.
>>>> I would also have to fill all the holes in the deck from where the
>>>> plates were and re-route the holding tank vent, but that would be
>>>> worth it for the extra room on deck and the elimination of possible
>>>> leaks.
>>>>
>>>> What to our C38 folks think?
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/27/2011 11:21 AM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chuck, Did you send a link for the rigrite stanchions?
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Max
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/26 Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws <mailto:charles at finn.ws>>
>>>>
>>>> One way I know it is sailing season is the scrape on my
>>>> shin obtained as I climb from the cabin to the cockpit.
>>>> The other wound is the bruises on the side of both legs as
>>>> I bang into the stanchions. I love the look of our boats,
>>>> but the design idea that the stanchions should follow the
>>>> inward bend of the tumblehome really does not work for me.
>>>> There just is not enough deck for a guy my size. I am
>>>> still considering bending and re-welding the current
>>>> stanchions into a vertical position, but perhaps even a
>>>> better solution would be to remove the current stanchions
>>>> altogether and going with a toe rail stanchion like you see
>>>> on C&C yachts. Rigrite.com has these. Attaching
>>>> stanchions directly to our toerail seems to be a viable
>>>> option as the rail is really heavy duty. Additionally, you
>>>> can buy the bases and use the current tubing assuming it is
>>>> not the light weight stuff Tom has commented on. This
>>>> would give us a lot more deck space for size 11 feet.
>>>> Just thinking aloud at this point, but I really am tired of
>>>> the bruising!
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2011 3:25 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good to know that they share the same foot print... If
>>>> the removable stanchion's base also fits, I'll go for
>>>> that one next time..... A little heavier, but if they
>>>> bend, it will be so much easier to replace.......
>>>> Thanks, Max
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/25 Steven Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>>
>>>>
>>>> Max, yes...same foot print. Garhauer has a
>>>> square-ish base that I think are for removable
>>>> stanchions and a one that's trapezoidal for the
>>>> solid/fixed type, which is what mine are (also
>>>> characterized by the "flat top"). I can't speak to
>>>> the quality comment that Tom refers to, I just know
>>>> mine have been on the boat for 30 years and only
>>>> needed to be replaced because the over-wintering
>>>> force exerted by the shrinkwrap caused them to
>>>> bend. I thought I saw reinforced/gate style
>>>> stanchions on their website, but don't know about
>>>> the footprint.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Tom T.
>>>> <tdtron at earthlink.net
>>>> <mailto:tdtron at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> After hurricane Dennis (the Menace) skirted
>>>> Tampa Bay a few years ago with a near miss, we
>>>> got tangled up with a piling with the surge and
>>>> had our starboard lifelines damaged along with
>>>> the stanchions on that side.
>>>> I replaced the stanchions near the rail at the
>>>> aft end of the cabin with Catalina Direct
>>>> stanchions. I replaced both sides so they would
>>>> match. My boat had standard stanchions and
>>>> those stanchions should have been the
>>>> reinforced gate entry types which are heavier
>>>> and more expensive.
>>>> I didn't shop Garhauer and I probably should
>>>> have but the original stanchions were JUNK so
>>>> anything was an upgrade! The metal in the
>>>> replacement stanchions was much heavier gage
>>>> and with the reinforced foot design of the gate
>>>> type stanchion there was no comparison between
>>>> quality or strength of the two types.
>>>> The reason I bring this up is some of our
>>>> members may have stanchions like the ones I
>>>> replaced which may be a disaster waiting to
>>>> happen. If the stanchions at the front of the
>>>> gate are like the thin, weak ones like I had
>>>> they could fail. The thin tube original
>>>> stanchions may be OK for middle of the
>>>> lifeline mounts but where the gates terminate
>>>> they are inadequate
>>>> Tom Troncalli
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Max Soto <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>>> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>> *Sent:* 1/25/2011 12:00:20 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>
>>>> Steve, do they have the same footprint???
>>>> Regards, max
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Steven Ribble
>>>> <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Our stanchions are Garhauer...I
>>>> replaced a couple last season...about
>>>> $50 each.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Max
>>>> Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey Steve,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not surprised if they were made
>>>> by Garhauer......
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Max
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/24 Steve Smolinske
>>>> <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>>>> <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know who made our
>>>> stanchions?
>>>>
>>>> Steve Smolinske
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> 425-227-4500
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Max Soto
>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Ribble
>>>> 207/852-0971
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Steve Ribble
>>>> 207/852-0971
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Max Soto
>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Max Soto
>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>
>>>>
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--
Donald R. Strong
Professor
Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
University of California, Davis 95616
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