[C38] Stanchions

Don Strong drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Fri Jan 28 19:31:29 EST 2011


Anders: The toe rail is aluminum and it is corroded a bit along its 
bottom edge in a few places. Alum does corrode in salt water, albeit slowly.
Don

On 1/28/11 4:24 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>
> Really? I thought that toe rail was aluminum. Should be pretty 
> resistant to salt corrosion. I think what my old man is trying to say 
> is that the toe rail is at least as strong, if not stronger than the 
> plywood under the deck to which the stanchions are currently screwed 
> into. It would be interesting to know the dimensions of the toe rail 
> if anyone has them (I think my dad is going up to measure in a few 
> weeks) and I can figure out what kind of moment could be applied 
> safely to the toe rail if one could find a way to apply the load evenly.
>
> Anders
>
> On 01/28/2011 04:06 PM, Don Strong wrote:
>> The toe rail really is not that tough.  As well, in salty boats as 
>> old as mine (1980), the toe rail has some indication of chemical 
>> decomposition along the bottom side. I treat my toe rail with care. 
>> Like the rest of this wonderful 30 year old device, I hope it lasts 
>> longer than I last.
>> Don
>>
>> On 1/28/11 2:15 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>>> Think about pivot point. If there is indeed only two bolts, the only 
>>> thing keeping it from pivoting is compression between the plate and 
>>> the toe rail. The bolts are there simply to provide a leverage 
>>> point. That's what concerns me.
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> On 01/28/2011 02:13 PM, Chuck Finn wrote:
>>>> This type of fitting is used by:  C&C, Hunter, PDQ, Bayfield, and 
>>>> Freedom yachts.  I think the footprint is the entire toerail, which 
>>>> is significantly stronger than our pad fastened to a plywood 
>>>> deck....   If I was to worry about strength, it would be the shear 
>>>> force exerted on the bolts if the toerail stanchion base is not a 
>>>> good fit with our toerail...  I would weld the stanchion to the 
>>>> base rather than rely on the throughbolt.  I can also comment on 
>>>> the strength of at least the C&C toerail as I have raced these 
>>>> boats and that means bounced a time or two off the lines and 
>>>> stanchions!  Have crewed Hunters as well, but don't remember the 
>>>> stanchion design.
>>>>
>>>> I think my next step will be to contact Garhauer as they are 
>>>> reputed to have first made our toerail.  I also could easily 
>>>> fabricate my own bases that would incorporate Ander's ideas.
>>>>
>>>> But, will it look pretty?
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2011 4:16 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>>>>> Yeah, I just got a chance to look at this. I think Steve is right 
>>>>> here about a large drop in torsional resistance. However, that 
>>>>> being said, those stanchions forward of the cockpit are not really 
>>>>> THAT strong. I would like to see at least a three bolt design with 
>>>>> a larger outer plate to provide some surface to disperse the 
>>>>> torque to the hull.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anders
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. They say they're used on Freedom 32's however, from pictures, 
>>>>> I can't see anything resembling a toe rail that would support load 
>>>>> on them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/28/2011 12:42 PM, S Orton wrote:
>>>>>> Chuck,  If I understand the concept correctly, it is a very poor 
>>>>>> structural design.  There is no foot print to react the outward 
>>>>>> cantilever force on the stantion- you need a four bolt pattern to 
>>>>>> react this force in all directions and I only saw two fasteners 
>>>>>> parallel to the toe rail.
>>>>>> Cheers, Steve O
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:27:31 -0500
>>>>>> From: charles at finn.ws
>>>>>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max,
>>>>>> Here is the rigrite url: 
>>>>>> http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail 
>>>>>> <http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you can see, this would put the stanchion on the outside edge 
>>>>>> of our toerail and would eliminate the base.  This would result 
>>>>>> in a lot of room on the deck.  I am thinking of using two of the 
>>>>>> bases for the gate and then moving forward.  My issue about this 
>>>>>> would look is that I will have to connect to the stern rails and 
>>>>>> bow pulpit, which would remain as they are.
>>>>>> I would also have to fill all the holes in the deck from where 
>>>>>> the plates were and re-route the holding tank vent, but that 
>>>>>> would be worth it for the extra room on deck and the elimination 
>>>>>> of possible leaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What to our C38 folks think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 11:21 AM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Chuck, Did you send a link for the rigrite stanchions?
>>>>>>      Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     2011/1/26 Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws <mailto:charles at finn.ws>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         One way I know it is sailing season is the scrape on my
>>>>>>         shin obtained as I climb from the cabin to the cockpit. 
>>>>>>         The other wound is the bruises on the side of both legs
>>>>>>         as I bang into the stanchions.  I love the look of our
>>>>>>         boats, but the design idea that the stanchions should
>>>>>>         follow the inward bend of the tumblehome really does not
>>>>>>         work for me.  There just is not enough deck for a guy my
>>>>>>         size.  I am still considering bending and re-welding the
>>>>>>         current stanchions into a vertical position, but perhaps
>>>>>>         even a better solution would be to remove the current
>>>>>>         stanchions altogether and going with a toe rail stanchion
>>>>>>         like you see on C&C yachts.  Rigrite.com has these.  
>>>>>>         Attaching stanchions directly to our toerail seems to be
>>>>>>         a viable option as the rail is really heavy duty. 
>>>>>>         Additionally, you can buy the bases and use the current
>>>>>>         tubing assuming it is not the light weight stuff Tom has
>>>>>>         commented on.   This would give us a lot more deck space
>>>>>>         for size 11 feet.
>>>>>>         Just thinking aloud at this point, but I really am tired
>>>>>>         of the bruising!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Chuck Finn
>>>>>>         Mighty Quinn #114
>>>>>>         Great Lakes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         On 1/25/2011 3:25 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Good to know that they share the same foot print...
>>>>>>             If the removable stanchion's base also fits, I'll go
>>>>>>             for that one next time..... A little heavier, but if
>>>>>>             they bend, it will be so much easier to replace.......
>>>>>>             Thanks, Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             2011/1/25 Steven Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>>>>             <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Max, yes...same foot print.  Garhauer has a
>>>>>>                 square-ish base that I think are for removable
>>>>>>                 stanchions and a one that's trapezoidal for the
>>>>>>                 solid/fixed type, which is what mine are (also
>>>>>>                 characterized by the "flat top").  I can't speak
>>>>>>                 to the quality comment that Tom refers to, I just
>>>>>>                 know mine have been on the boat for 30 years and
>>>>>>                 only needed to be replaced because the
>>>>>>                 over-wintering force exerted by the shrinkwrap
>>>>>>                 caused them to bend.  I thought I saw
>>>>>>                 reinforced/gate style stanchions on their
>>>>>>                 website, but don't know about the footprint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Tom T.
>>>>>>                 <tdtron at earthlink.net
>>>>>>                 <mailto:tdtron at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     After hurricane Dennis (the Menace) skirted
>>>>>>                     Tampa Bay a few years ago with a near miss,
>>>>>>                     we got tangled up with a piling with the
>>>>>>                     surge and had our starboard lifelines damaged
>>>>>>                     along with the stanchions on that side.
>>>>>>                     I replaced the stanchions near the rail at
>>>>>>                     the aft end of the cabin with Catalina Direct
>>>>>>                     stanchions. I replaced both sides so they
>>>>>>                     would match.  My boat had standard stanchions
>>>>>>                     and those stanchions should have been the
>>>>>>                     reinforced gate entry types which are heavier
>>>>>>                     and more expensive.
>>>>>>                     I didn't shop Garhauer and I probably should
>>>>>>                     have but the original stanchions were JUNK so
>>>>>>                     anything was an upgrade!  The metal in the
>>>>>>                     replacement stanchions was much heavier gage
>>>>>>                     and with the reinforced foot design of the
>>>>>>                     gate type stanchion there was no comparison
>>>>>>                     between quality or strength of the two types.
>>>>>>                     The reason I bring this up is some of our
>>>>>>                     members may have stanchions like the ones I
>>>>>>                     replaced which may be a disaster waiting to
>>>>>>                     happen.  If the stanchions at the front of
>>>>>>                     the gate are like the thin, weak ones like I
>>>>>>                     had they could fail.  The thin tube original
>>>>>>                     stanchions may be OK for middle of the
>>>>>>                     lifeline mounts but where the gates terminate
>>>>>>                     they are inadequate
>>>>>>                     Tom Troncalli
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>                         *From:* Max Soto <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>>>>>                         *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>>>>                         <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                         *Sent:* 1/25/2011 12:00:20 PM
>>>>>>                         *Subject:* Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Steve, do they have the same footprint???
>>>>>>                         Regards, max
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Sent from my iPod
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Steven
>>>>>>                         Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>>>>                         <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             Our stanchions are Garhauer...I
>>>>>>                             replaced a couple last season...about
>>>>>>                             $50 each.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Max
>>>>>>                             Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>>>>>                             <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 Hey Steve,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 I'm not surprised if they were
>>>>>>                                 made by Garhauer......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 2011/1/24 Steve Smolinske
>>>>>>                                 <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>>>>>>                                 <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     Does anyone know who made our
>>>>>>                                     stanchions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     Steve Smolinske
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     President
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     425-227-4500
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     www.RainierRubber.com
>>>>>>                                     <http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     The information contained in
>>>>>>                                     this email may be
>>>>>>                                     confidential and/or
>>>>>>                                     proprietary in nature and is
>>>>>>                                     intended for the recipient of
>>>>>>                                     the email only.  Please treat
>>>>>>                                     all information contained in
>>>>>>                                     this and any communication
>>>>>>                                     with the 4M Company as such. 
>>>>>>                                     Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     PBefore printing, think about
>>>>>>                                     ENVIRONMENTAL responsibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                                     Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>                                     Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>                                     <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                                     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 -- 
>>>>>>                                 Max Soto
>>>>>>                                 C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>>                                 Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                                 Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>                                 Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>                                 <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                                 http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             -- 
>>>>>>                             Steve Ribble
>>>>>>                             207/852-0971
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                             Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>                             Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                             http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                     Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>                     Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>                     <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 -- 
>>>>>>                 Steve Ribble
>>>>>>                 207/852-0971
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                 Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>                 Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>                 <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>                 http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             -- 
>>>>>>             Max Soto
>>>>>>             C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>>             Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>             Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>             Listserve at catalina38.org  <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>             http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>         Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>         Listserve at catalina38.org <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>         http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     -- 
>>>>>>     Max Soto
>>>>>>     C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>>     Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>     Listserve at catalina38.org  <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>>     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Donald R. Strong
>> Professor
>> Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
>> University of California, Davis 95616
>>
>>
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-- 
Donald R. Strong
Professor
Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
University of California, Davis 95616

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