[C38] Stanchions
Don Strong
drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Fri Jan 28 19:31:29 EST 2011
Anders: The toe rail is aluminum and it is corroded a bit along its
bottom edge in a few places. Alum does corrode in salt water, albeit slowly.
Don
On 1/28/11 4:24 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>
> Really? I thought that toe rail was aluminum. Should be pretty
> resistant to salt corrosion. I think what my old man is trying to say
> is that the toe rail is at least as strong, if not stronger than the
> plywood under the deck to which the stanchions are currently screwed
> into. It would be interesting to know the dimensions of the toe rail
> if anyone has them (I think my dad is going up to measure in a few
> weeks) and I can figure out what kind of moment could be applied
> safely to the toe rail if one could find a way to apply the load evenly.
>
> Anders
>
> On 01/28/2011 04:06 PM, Don Strong wrote:
>> The toe rail really is not that tough. As well, in salty boats as
>> old as mine (1980), the toe rail has some indication of chemical
>> decomposition along the bottom side. I treat my toe rail with care.
>> Like the rest of this wonderful 30 year old device, I hope it lasts
>> longer than I last.
>> Don
>>
>> On 1/28/11 2:15 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>>> Think about pivot point. If there is indeed only two bolts, the only
>>> thing keeping it from pivoting is compression between the plate and
>>> the toe rail. The bolts are there simply to provide a leverage
>>> point. That's what concerns me.
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> On 01/28/2011 02:13 PM, Chuck Finn wrote:
>>>> This type of fitting is used by: C&C, Hunter, PDQ, Bayfield, and
>>>> Freedom yachts. I think the footprint is the entire toerail, which
>>>> is significantly stronger than our pad fastened to a plywood
>>>> deck.... If I was to worry about strength, it would be the shear
>>>> force exerted on the bolts if the toerail stanchion base is not a
>>>> good fit with our toerail... I would weld the stanchion to the
>>>> base rather than rely on the throughbolt. I can also comment on
>>>> the strength of at least the C&C toerail as I have raced these
>>>> boats and that means bounced a time or two off the lines and
>>>> stanchions! Have crewed Hunters as well, but don't remember the
>>>> stanchion design.
>>>>
>>>> I think my next step will be to contact Garhauer as they are
>>>> reputed to have first made our toerail. I also could easily
>>>> fabricate my own bases that would incorporate Ander's ideas.
>>>>
>>>> But, will it look pretty?
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2011 4:16 PM, Anders Finn wrote:
>>>>> Yeah, I just got a chance to look at this. I think Steve is right
>>>>> here about a large drop in torsional resistance. However, that
>>>>> being said, those stanchions forward of the cockpit are not really
>>>>> THAT strong. I would like to see at least a three bolt design with
>>>>> a larger outer plate to provide some surface to disperse the
>>>>> torque to the hull.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anders
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. They say they're used on Freedom 32's however, from pictures,
>>>>> I can't see anything resembling a toe rail that would support load
>>>>> on them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/28/2011 12:42 PM, S Orton wrote:
>>>>>> Chuck, If I understand the concept correctly, it is a very poor
>>>>>> structural design. There is no foot print to react the outward
>>>>>> cantilever force on the stantion- you need a four bolt pattern to
>>>>>> react this force in all directions and I only saw two fasteners
>>>>>> parallel to the toe rail.
>>>>>> Cheers, Steve O
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:27:31 -0500
>>>>>> From: charles at finn.ws
>>>>>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max,
>>>>>> Here is the rigrite url:
>>>>>> http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail
>>>>>> <http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Stanchions_&_Bases/Stanchion_Bases_SS.html#SS%20Stanchion%20Bases%20that%20Attach%20to%20Toerail>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you can see, this would put the stanchion on the outside edge
>>>>>> of our toerail and would eliminate the base. This would result
>>>>>> in a lot of room on the deck. I am thinking of using two of the
>>>>>> bases for the gate and then moving forward. My issue about this
>>>>>> would look is that I will have to connect to the stern rails and
>>>>>> bow pulpit, which would remain as they are.
>>>>>> I would also have to fill all the holes in the deck from where
>>>>>> the plates were and re-route the holding tank vent, but that
>>>>>> would be worth it for the extra room on deck and the elimination
>>>>>> of possible leaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What to our C38 folks think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/27/2011 11:21 AM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck, Did you send a link for the rigrite stanchions?
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/26 Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws <mailto:charles at finn.ws>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One way I know it is sailing season is the scrape on my
>>>>>> shin obtained as I climb from the cabin to the cockpit.
>>>>>> The other wound is the bruises on the side of both legs
>>>>>> as I bang into the stanchions. I love the look of our
>>>>>> boats, but the design idea that the stanchions should
>>>>>> follow the inward bend of the tumblehome really does not
>>>>>> work for me. There just is not enough deck for a guy my
>>>>>> size. I am still considering bending and re-welding the
>>>>>> current stanchions into a vertical position, but perhaps
>>>>>> even a better solution would be to remove the current
>>>>>> stanchions altogether and going with a toe rail stanchion
>>>>>> like you see on C&C yachts. Rigrite.com has these.
>>>>>> Attaching stanchions directly to our toerail seems to be
>>>>>> a viable option as the rail is really heavy duty.
>>>>>> Additionally, you can buy the bases and use the current
>>>>>> tubing assuming it is not the light weight stuff Tom has
>>>>>> commented on. This would give us a lot more deck space
>>>>>> for size 11 feet.
>>>>>> Just thinking aloud at this point, but I really am tired
>>>>>> of the bruising!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>>>> Mighty Quinn #114
>>>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/25/2011 3:25 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good to know that they share the same foot print...
>>>>>> If the removable stanchion's base also fits, I'll go
>>>>>> for that one next time..... A little heavier, but if
>>>>>> they bend, it will be so much easier to replace.......
>>>>>> Thanks, Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/25 Steven Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max, yes...same foot print. Garhauer has a
>>>>>> square-ish base that I think are for removable
>>>>>> stanchions and a one that's trapezoidal for the
>>>>>> solid/fixed type, which is what mine are (also
>>>>>> characterized by the "flat top"). I can't speak
>>>>>> to the quality comment that Tom refers to, I just
>>>>>> know mine have been on the boat for 30 years and
>>>>>> only needed to be replaced because the
>>>>>> over-wintering force exerted by the shrinkwrap
>>>>>> caused them to bend. I thought I saw
>>>>>> reinforced/gate style stanchions on their
>>>>>> website, but don't know about the footprint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Tom T.
>>>>>> <tdtron at earthlink.net
>>>>>> <mailto:tdtron at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After hurricane Dennis (the Menace) skirted
>>>>>> Tampa Bay a few years ago with a near miss,
>>>>>> we got tangled up with a piling with the
>>>>>> surge and had our starboard lifelines damaged
>>>>>> along with the stanchions on that side.
>>>>>> I replaced the stanchions near the rail at
>>>>>> the aft end of the cabin with Catalina Direct
>>>>>> stanchions. I replaced both sides so they
>>>>>> would match. My boat had standard stanchions
>>>>>> and those stanchions should have been the
>>>>>> reinforced gate entry types which are heavier
>>>>>> and more expensive.
>>>>>> I didn't shop Garhauer and I probably should
>>>>>> have but the original stanchions were JUNK so
>>>>>> anything was an upgrade! The metal in the
>>>>>> replacement stanchions was much heavier gage
>>>>>> and with the reinforced foot design of the
>>>>>> gate type stanchion there was no comparison
>>>>>> between quality or strength of the two types.
>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is some of our
>>>>>> members may have stanchions like the ones I
>>>>>> replaced which may be a disaster waiting to
>>>>>> happen. If the stanchions at the front of
>>>>>> the gate are like the thin, weak ones like I
>>>>>> had they could fail. The thin tube original
>>>>>> stanchions may be OK for middle of the
>>>>>> lifeline mounts but where the gates terminate
>>>>>> they are inadequate
>>>>>> Tom Troncalli
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Max Soto <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>>>> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* 1/25/2011 12:00:20 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Stanchions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve, do they have the same footprint???
>>>>>> Regards, max
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Steven
>>>>>> Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:steve.ribble at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our stanchions are Garhauer...I
>>>>>> replaced a couple last season...about
>>>>>> $50 each.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Max
>>>>>> Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Steve,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not surprised if they were
>>>>>> made by Garhauer......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/1/24 Steve Smolinske
>>>>>> <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>>>>>> <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know who made our
>>>>>> stanchions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Smolinske
>>>>>>
>>>>>> President
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 425-227-4500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.RainierRubber.com
>>>>>> <http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information contained in
>>>>>> this email may be
>>>>>> confidential and/or
>>>>>> proprietary in nature and is
>>>>>> intended for the recipient of
>>>>>> the email only. Please treat
>>>>>> all information contained in
>>>>>> this and any communication
>>>>>> with the 4M Company as such.
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PBefore printing, think about
>>>>>> ENVIRONMENTAL responsibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Max Soto
>>>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Steve Ribble
>>>>>> 207/852-0971
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Steve Ribble
>>>>>> 207/852-0971
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Max Soto
>>>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Max Soto
>>>>>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>>>>>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>> --
>> Donald R. Strong
>> Professor
>> Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
>> University of California, Davis 95616
>>
>>
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>
>
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--
Donald R. Strong
Professor
Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
University of California, Davis 95616
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