[C38] Rudder Drop Woes

Tue Apr 5 07:07:38 EDT 2011

 Hey David,

Dont cut the quadrant off the rudder just yet!  I just went through a multiple day epic trying to remove the steering quadrant so I could pull the rudder after we had a run-in with a whale a few weeks ago.  Believe it or not, we got nudged by female humpback while rounding the SE corner of Oahu during a circumnavigation of the island.  She hit us broadside and clipped the bottom of the rudder, bending the bottom about 6" to the starboard side.  The whale was fine (prop not on) and she barely skimmed the bottom of the rudder).  The boat won't turn right at all, but she turned left enough to get us home safely and spend the night out sailing on that Tsunami day a few weeks ago.  

So to pull the rudder out (while in the water), I had to remove the steering assembly, and those 5 bolts holding the quadrant to the rudder post were an incredible pain to break free.  I eventually had to borrow an 3/8"-drive impact gun and large compressor from a mechanic friend.  Although the gun eventually did break them free, it still took the combination blow torch, PB blaster, and cranking on each bolt with the gun for about 40 minutes each to break them free. It was amazing how stuck they were in there (and how much space you dont have working down there!).  There are also the two little machine head screws (with nuts) that hold the edges of the two quadrants together (the ones Steve had mentioned), that I hadn't noticed at first and discovered when I couldn't pry the two freed-halves apart.  

After finally getting the steering assembly off, and removing the stainless cap that the rudder attaches to in the helm (which came off almost without the need for a wrench), I could see that the rudder post is in fact hollow (sides are about 1/4" thick) and inside is filled with foam.  Because the rudder post was bent, the rudder did not come out very easily.  I had to pound on it with a rubber mallet (for about 20 minutes) pour in penetrating oil, while my buddy turned the rudder manually in the water.  After it was unseized, we pulled the rudder post out of the bottom of the boat and did the best we could to control the rudders ascent.  Once the rudder post is all the way out, it becomes very evident that its positively bouyant, and how tricky it is to control even with two bodies holding it. 

After it was out of the water, we could assess the damage.  The rudder post was bent about 3" off center over the 32" it sticks out (not too bad) and the fiberglass around the upper portion of the post as cracked.  I took it to a local metal fabrication shop in Honolulu, and they straightened it back out no problem using a 120,000lb press (took about 40 minutes and $80).  Next is taking it to a glass-guy who can patch the crack and resurface the fiberglass.  Paint it and pop it back in. 

Jon Whitney
"Eye Whitness"
1979, Hull 54
Honolulu

-----Original Message-----
From: listserve-request at catalina38.org
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Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:28 pm
Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229

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Today's Topics:

   1. Rudder Drop Woes (david at dlrfilms.com)
   2. Re: crossing oceans (Larry Malmberg)
   3. Re: Rudder Drop Woes (Steve Smolinske)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:32:53 -0700
From: david at dlrfilms.com
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
Message-ID:
    <ad3f56dfaf3f1474f58727e97a5b5cab.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have happened
except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel off
the damn rudder post!

Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
budge.

We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical advantage
and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the tiller.

I am *discouraged*.

Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle grinder?

Thanks!

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:57:43 -0700
From: Larry Malmberg <larrypi at live.com>
To: "'Rod and Patti Headlee'" <ja38 at earthlink.net>, "'Catalina 38
    Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
Message-ID: <SNT128-DS190051AE1114A7DC35A5C1CEA30 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Rod, how did the  Katadyn 40e work for you???

Best regards,

Larry Malmberg

Larry Malmberg Investigations 
7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
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-----Original Message-----
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Rod and Patti Headlee
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 4:17 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans

Hi All,
I guess no one told us not to cross an ocean in the C-38. They are a bit wet
at the helm seat but we were tiller steered with a monitor windvane. I could
steer from the forward end of the cockpit and not get wet. We had JA in
several gales before my wetaher forecasting got better and she did us fine
in 50 kt winds and 25 foot seas. One night we turned into the wind and
forereached under doulble reefed main and the next night we let her run and
surf the waves with the monitor steering.

We added a 40 gal fuel tank behind the engine so we carried 60 gal diesel
total, we used 26 gal charging batteries on a 26 day run to Hiva Oa from
Mazatlan. We had also installed an extra 18 gal water tank under the
starboard setee and we carried 48 gal + 18 more in jerry jugs in the quarter
berth. We also installed a Katadyn 40e, Air X, wind gen and a 55 watt solar
panel. We had a Avon 4 man life raft, a Achilles dinghy and a ditch bag
stuffed in the quarter berth too. She was well overloaded and still sailed
well.  We never got stern popped, we had several waves land in the mainsail
pocket so we got a loose footed mainsail built for her. The cockpit drains
are fine for offshore, a bit of wayer creeps in if you are motoring in a
large stern swell. We filled the T of the cockpit with jerry jugs for stove
fule, diesel and gas for the dinghy. The run from Boar Bora to Am Samoa was
35 kts 11-15 foot seas and the C-38 loved it.

rod

 -----Original Message-----
>From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>Sent: Apr 3, 2011 4:20 AM
>To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
>Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>
>John:
>   a tyro is a beginner. Someone who knows only the rudiments. I'm no 
>expert. My feeling that C38's aren't a good choice for crossing oceans 
>is the advice of the surveyor who did my boat at purchase. The C38 
>features that to his mind said "choose another boat if you want to 
>cross oceans" were the lack of stern buoyancy ---part and parcel of an 
>IOR
>boat--- combined with the poor cockpit drainage, combined with the huge 
>passageway allowing water from pooping into the cockpit. The second two 
>can be fixed. But, as I said, I'm no expert. What do others feel about
this?
>Don
>
>On 4/2/11 7:20 PM, John Felkins wrote:
>> Sorry, but what's a "tyro?" Also, why don't you think the C38 is a good
passage maker?
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:00 AM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
>>
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
>>> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Different builds? (John Felkins)
>>>    2. Re: Different builds? (Harry Powell)
>>>    3. Re: Different builds? (Don Strong)
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:28:56 -0500
>>> From: John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
>>> To: "listserve at catalina38.org"<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>> Subject: [C38] Different builds?
>>> Message-ID:<057FF911-B3CA-44E8-BBB6-78A0D2C62B73 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>
>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:38:26 +0000 (GMT)
>>> From: Harry Powell<harrypowell at mac.com>
>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>> Cc: jrfelkins at gmail.com
>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>>> Message-ID:<acc74510-842a-4f24-ab9d-cd641fdac383 at me.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> My 1984 is just about the perfect year, also for sale in San Diego at
the moment.
>>>
>>> Kidding aside, when I was looking I looked at the systems; electrical
for upgraded wiring and clean runs, etc. And electroics; original? working?
Also engine especially routine maintenance and exhaust system. The boats are
very similar from year to year and the later years have a few "upgrades" but
are quite simply not as old and have seen less wear and tear.
>>>
>>> Look at inventory as sails are expensive. Check the engine log as
rebuilds are expensive.
>>>
>>> Cheers!?
>>> Harry?
>>> Sum Fun,hull #258
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 01, 2011, at 11:28 AM, John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>
>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing list
>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 08:44:33 -0700
>>> From: Don Strong<drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>>> Message-ID:<4D974461.9090405 at ucdavis.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Dear John:
>>>       Discreet Charm is C38 number 50 built in 1980. We all love the 
>>> way our boats sail, the large interior of C38s, and the superior 
>>> craftsmanship. So I will tell you what I don't like about them. 
>>> Common to all IOR boats is the pinched stern, which means no space 
>>> aft. The C36 does not have a pinched stern. I also dislike the very 
>>> restricted space in the engine room. To be able to view amply and 
>>> work around the engine of a sailboat is a real plus that the C38 
>>> doesn't have.  Finally, the early boats like mine have small fuel 
>>> tanks, 20 gals, and replacement with a larger fuel tank is a lot of work
and expense.
>>>      These are the only minuses that I have encountered in 8 years 
>>> of ownership. I will say that if I had the choice to repurchase my 
>>> boat I would. I would not buy a C36 because I think they look like 
>>> pigs, and appearance is a big part of the hedonic pleasure one takes
from a yacht.
>>> I wouldn't buy an Erickson to get the great engine access because 
>>> they don't sail nearly as well as a C38. The fuel limitation can be 
>>> worked around, it isn't a problem unless you were to want to cross 
>>> oceans. I don't think the C38 is a great ocean crossing boat, but 
>>> I'm pretty much a tyro about ocean crossing.
>>>      I'll bet others have different opinions. I look forward to the 
>>> other responses to your question.
>>>      Regards, Don
>>>
>>> PS. Renovation and refitting is really expensive. Buy a boat that 
>>> has recently been renovated and refitted.
>>>
>>> On 4/1/11 11:28 AM, John Felkins wrote:
>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>>
>>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Listserve mailing list
>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>> --
>>> Donald R. Strong
>>> C38 Discreet Charm
>>> Emerycove, San Francisco Bay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing list
>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 224
>>> *****************************************
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>--
>Donald R. Strong
>Professor
>Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
>University of California, Davis 95616
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:26:31 -0700
From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
Message-ID: <392501BCC93AAC4EA94D28D8DB1599226928C7 at sockeye.4M.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

David,

Just dropped mine and had a similiar problem with one of the four bolts clamping 
the unit to the post.  We ended up using socket extensions to get the wrench so 
that a second person could put a pipe on it from within the quarter berth.  I 
layed in place and held the socket on the head of the bolt and supported the 
extensions so that the other crew member could reef on the damn thing.  It took 
a whole lot of grunting and groaning. 

Aluminium heats and expands faster than the stainless bolt, you might try 
heating and then applying more WD40 or PB Blaster and waiting a few hours.  tap 
the head of the bolt after heating and spraying the WD to allow the WD40 to 
penetrate into the threads  Im assuming you also removed the two smaller bolts 
at the outer edge of the wheel in addition to the four large ones in the center.   

When you get it out let me know what your post looks like, I thought they were 
solid posts, I was surprised to find that ours looked to be about Schedule 40 
pipe.   

Steve 
#312 Peregrine
Seattle  

________________________________

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of david at dlrfilms.com
Sent: Sun 4/3/2011 6:32 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes