[C38] Deep keel - 6'9"

D McC cat38skip at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 9 22:32:11 EDT 2011


Hey All, 
There used to be a keel conversion/shortening set of photos and description on the Cat38 Association site. It looked like a pretty good job. Last time I checked, the photos were not displaying. 

~Dave

Pretty Lady #148

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--- On Thu, 6/9/11, tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:

From: tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] Deep keel - 6'9"
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Date: Thursday, June 9, 2011, 11:41 AM


 
 

Hello Gang,
 
I can't imagine a successful shortening of the standard keel.  I had a shoal draft keel and the keel stub of the hull was much longer than on the deep draft version making it much stronger.  The "Catalina Smile" is not nearly as prevalent on the shoal draft version as on the deep draft version.  Adding a bulb ballast to the deep draft keel would make the keel to hull connection weaker.
 
One other thing to consider is that the shoal draft keel is a lot longer fore to aft than the higher aspect ratio deep fin.  This longer keel isn't as efficient as the deep fin but it still has more lateral resistance than a shortened deep fin which loses surface area when shortened.   A properly fitted bulb helps retain some lateral resistance but I doubt it will provide as much as the much larger size of the shoal draft version.
 
The shoal draft version has 800 lbs more ballast making the center of gravity and stiffness about the same as the deep fin version.
 
We kept our boat in Tampa Bay and cruised the left side of Florida.  Many of the places we visited had entrances of 5-7'.  The anchorages around the area are all shallow making a deep fin not a real possibility for our uses even though offshore I would have loved the extra performance.
 
That being said, the shoal draft actually sails pretty well, as the handicap ratings show.  Having a shoal draft not only let us go to more places, it also gave us a better "Walter Mitty"ego when we passed larger boats while towing our dinghy behind.  We always acted like we didn't notice we were passing them as we carefully tweaked everything for that extra quarter knot.  Once a racer, always a racer, even in a shoal draft boat.
 
Tom Troncalli
Recovering ex Catalina 38 owner.

 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Max Soto 
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Sent: 6/9/2011 9:21:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [C38] Deep keel - 6'9"


Chuck, I  do remeber having the draft reduction discussion a few years ago, but you never told us that you went this far with mars metals ....  if you still have it, could you please send  that keel info from mars metals??? Did they recommend adding that 500 pounds plus what you were planning to cut, or just cut it add the 500??? Did they said something about adding more bolts to the keel and hull joint ???


Regards, max


Sent from my iPod

On Jun 8, 2011, at 8:30, Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:




Marci,
You are correct that 6' 9" is a bit troublesome in the Caribbean and even in the Great lakes.  I too have considered a shoal keel and actually did all the homework to shorten my keel (see the discusssion thread from 2-3 years ago).   Obviously, I did not make the change, but here is my thinking.
First is performance and this of course is a preference.  With all do respect to our C38 shoal keel folks, the long keel really does make a difference.  I get around on other boats and like on mine, the skippers like to see someone else steer.  And the fact is that our deep keel allows for performance to wind that other boats simply do not have!  Six feet seems to be the magic number, with significant performance differences.  My calculations supported by the folks at Mars Metals (the folks who make the short keel modification) is in order to go to 5' 6", I would have to add five hundred pounds as a torpedo.  I would lose about 3-5 degrees of performance close hauled.  Even more problematic for me is the reduction in the "transversal metacenter" calculation that makes boats with shoal keels far more tender over the first 10 degrees of heel, which is one of the reasons our boats accelerate so well.
Second was the question of what is shoal enough?  4.5' seems to be a good number and perhaps a good compromise.  But, why not a centerboard or a Cat?  I have sailed both in the Caribbean, and honestly don't know which one I would prefer.  Seems like what I really need is two boats!  But the fact is that no matter what draft you have... you still have to be always considering your depth!  The S&S C38 does things that no other Catalina does and while I always want everything....  this is as close to who I am as I have found!

Chuck Finn
Mighty Quinn #114
Great Lakes

On 6/8/2011 9:17 AM, Don Strong wrote: 
That deep keel gets all caught up in bull kelp when you arrive at the farm house on Santa Rosa Island at 2 am in driving rain. We really didn't have to anchor. Don

On 6/8/11 12:20 AM, Joseph Launie wrote: 
Steve,
    In Southern California we have a different problem with depth, anchoring in deep water.  In Pelican Cove on Santa Cruz Island for example, if you get there early ( in the summer that is Thursday) you can anchor inside in only 25 feet. Get there on saturday and you will anchor in the center in 45 to 60 feet.   Years ago when we used to race to Catalina on saturday and arrive at Two Harbors in the late afternoon, I have anchored in 100 feet of water. Don't get too much scope. Joe Launie/Macavity

On 6/7/2011 9:03 PM, Steve Smolinske wrote: 
NW does have some issues with depth, but they are not soft bottoms, they are usually rocks.  The San Juan Islands publish a chart "The twelve most hit reefs"

________________________________

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of david at dlrfilms.com
Sent: Tue 6/7/2011 8:38 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Deep keel - 6'9"



INTEMPERANCE has the deep keel. We bought boat in Georgia I think the deep
keel is part of what was keeping the boat from selling and helped us get a
good deal on her.

I grew up on the West Coast. To my west coast way of thinking, if you've
got a bottom reading, you're in the surfzone and losing your boat. Sailing
INTEMPERANCE down the GA/FLA ICW was *extremely* stressful for me. A
couple of things have helped me learn to relax:

1) A miss is as good a mile. It takes time to get used to this. But the
water is 8' deep, it might as well be 1000. Sailing over the Little Bahama
Bank, watching the keel knock over conch shells was a head trip!

2) If you have a dinghy our boats are really easy to get unstuck. Tie a
halyard off to the dinghy, gun the engine, boat tips, off you go.


  
I'm guessing that those of you on the west coast don't have any issues
with
shallows. On the east coast however, it seems like my eyes are glued to
the
charts (instead of the water) too much of the time. While I love the way
Checksy handles, her 6'9" draft makes it hard to relax! What percentage of
the C38s were produced this way?  How many of you have the deep keel, and
do
you like them?

Marci J. Brown
Check's In The Mail

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-- 
Donald R. Strong
Professor
Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
University of California, Davis 95616
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