[C38] Rudder replacement and bearings.
Steve Smolinske
SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
Sun Sep 11 02:56:54 EDT 2011
Max,
If you don't already have this attached is the drawing for our rudders. It did not match up with mine, but it may be useful none the less as your shopping around.
Steve
________________________________
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto
Sent: Fri 9/9/2011 6:37 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder replacement and bearings.
Hey Steve,
Thanks for the planform!
With the blister job and the engine swap, I can't point that high for a new rudder... Yours looks great, and for sure, the extra 6" will make it way better, Phils foils price is 3500 for a new rudder.. So far is the most expensive..Catalina is asking 2750, so, 1800 for the elliptical from Foss, doesn't hurt that much, specially if it works way better than the one I have, as Larry reported previously... The bright side is that the price is half of what Phils is asking.. It sticks out on the back a few inches, but is not that noticeable...... I was just thinking, to quote also the 34/36 MKII from Foss... That rudder has similar shape and length when compared to yours..
I'm going to keep making phone calls and some numbers during the week and will let you know how it goes!
Regards,
Max
2011/9/9 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
Max,
on the cheaper eliptical design rudder check the measurements,The one I priced in that $1800 range was no deeper than our existing rudders and sticks out beyond the back of the boat. The one I got from phils foils although more expensive fit within the dimensions of our existing rudders and was 6 inches deeper. It was also 77 pounds lighter than the old rudder reusing my existing post, and only as thick as the post (pic attached) . My old rudder did not have any water inside so the weight savings is all in the new rudder materials. also the more expensive ones that are machined halves and put together are more symetrical than ones manufactured in a mold. The catalina drawing should already be on the website as I submitted it about nine months ago. Catalina felt that they might be able to adapt the 34/36 MKII rudder for our boats. attached is a planform study from phils foils comparing our new rudder to the exisiting
________________________________
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto
Sent: Thu 9/8/2011 11:59 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder replacement and bearings.
Rudder research update,
Here are some pics of the damage on the rudder shaft. It is located right on the rudder seal packing gland, so the only way to inspect it, is to drop the rudder, and getting the quadrant wheel out was the most painful job that I have done on Estancia. Will post a different thread later...
I have lots of quotes, and is funny how the the rudder and shipping prices change from one manufacturer to another...
Here are some facts:
Shipping prices are between $50 and $400
Rudders prices are between $1800 and $3500
The cheapest and the more expensive have the modern design elliptical design.
The average rudder price is $2750, but with the older rudder design.
All the rudders are fiberglass with a foam core, but there is one manufacturer that is thinking outside the box, and they are making the rudders out of high density polyethylene. Very innovative, since it doesn't absorb water, and is lifetime warrantied.
They are making them on two halves, bolted together but not glued, so there is no lack of oxygen to affect the stainless shaft.
The halves are carved by some kind of CNC machine, so the can make any rudder design... The price for our boats is between $2900 and $3000.. The only difference is that the rudder is a few pound heavier than the original rudder, but if the original has some water inside, is going to be a lot heavier!! http://www.idasailor.com/
I was planning to replace just the shaft, but the 2.5" 80 gauge 316 stainless pipe is impossible to get here, so, on second thoughts, I might go for the 1800 elliptical rudder..
Chuck and Anders, Here's a couple of drawings that Kent Nelson sent me, so if possible, I think that we should put them with the other tech drawings that we have on the web.
Regards,
Max
2011/9/1 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
Max,
I paid $2500 but they reused my post and we did the final painting and burnishing, the $3500 price should include a new carbon fiber post complete with bottom paint.
________________________________
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto
Sent: Thu 9/1/2011 7:14 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder replacement and bearings.
Hey Steve, how much did they charged for your rudder?? I was looking at their web page and they have the C38 rudder with your desogn for $3500... that's a lot!!!
If I'm not mistaken, someone replaced the post from his rudder, but don't remember who did it and I wasn't able to find it on the archives....
I'm sure I can do that, but I still have to get the post. Catalina do have them. When I was at the factory in CA, the engineer showed me the C38 post with no blade, but I don't know if they will assemble it and sell it as a complete rudder...
MAx
2011/9/1 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
Max,
Not sure about the rudder bearing, we installed a new rudder this last
April, we wrapped a wrap of mylar around the post and I was surprised
how much of the slop it ended taking out. Our posts at least mine was
a two part design, tube welded inside a tube then the webbing welded to
the tube. Our post was also pouruous and corroded around the entry
point into the rudder but the post was actually able to be reused in
the new rudder, we did not have water inside the old rudder however.
If you are replacing the rudder, I know you can get a stock one from
Catalina, they also may be able to take the higher aspect rudder of the
I think the 36 and modify it to fit, or there is Phils foils who did our
new one or CSI and Foss Foam who did Larrys rudder. Our blog has a
pic of our rudder. Good luck.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:46 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: [C38] Rudder replacement and bearings.
I just pulled out the rudder and it doesn't look any good... The shaft
looks heavily corroded with lots of pores and the blade is saturated
with water. Of course, I have to noticed this while doing a huge and
expensive blister job and engine swap... I might used like thi for a few
months until I get a replacement. Maybe, I just open it, let it dry and
replace the shaft. Going to check my options.
In the mean time, I found thi on Catalina direct.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&produ
ct_ID=2385&ParentCat=343 <http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&produ ct_ID=2385&ParentCat=343>
This link shows the rudder bearings for newer Catalina models. Could
those be installed on a c38??? With some modifications, I think that the
upper bearing with the self center bearing will get rid of the play on
the rudder shaft. At least most of it.
Any thoughts??
Max
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Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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