[C38] Twin Disc direct replacement for Hurth or ZF tranmissions

Fri Sep 23 00:42:56 EDT 2011

Mark,

Phil Gay did a winch upgrade on Que Linda I believe he went with the largest that would fit the mounting area, Phil were those 52s or 58s?

The web site has a catalina dodger frame drawing under the guides tab not.   

Congratulations on your purchase, and welcome to the list, If you havent already joined the association get in contact with Steve O, nominal fee and its gets you access to the members area of the site and Mainsheet magazine.   

Steve
#312 Peregrine
Seattle

________________________________

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Joseph Launie
Sent: Thu 9/22/2011 7:54 PM
To: listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: Re: [C38] Twin Disc direct replacement for Hurth or ZF tranmissions

Mark, I am the last person on the list to help you with etiquette but I know something about winches (all I know about wenches is whatever you say is wrong. I have caused more headaches than a hammer drill).   I have a l990 model, hull number 365. Our factory winches were Lewmar 52st. I thing they are a close size match to the old 48 3speed.  I try to avoid Lewmar when possible. I mjust replaced  my 52sts with Harken electric 53s. Best thing I ever did on the boat. There was an article about a year ago in sailing world about Soozal with 6 Harken electric winches. My crew and I did most of the work and had a marine electrician wire it up. It is pricy but a different world.

    Whatever winch you go to you will have to cut an access hole in the liner in the fgalley.  We had to remove a light. For our application, we had to do the same on the starboard side. If you want to go electric call me and I will fill you in.   You might also want to install genoa sheet  turning blocks. Recent pix on the net. Joe Launie/Macavity

On 9/22/2011 12:28 PM, Mark O'Dell wrote: 

	Hey All... 

	Please excuse the intrusion on this thread, but I am NEW to the list and I don't exactly know the etiquette involved in using this email list, or how it all works....so here goes...

	My name is Mark O'Dell, my father John and I recently purchased '83 C38 #230 (was SPIRIT, now MOMENTOUS) out of Holiday Point Marina in Edgewater, MD. 

	We moved the boat up to our yard on Jones Creek, off the Patapsco River in Baltimore. We got an insane deal on her, and she is in great shape... sails great, runs great, all seems to be well... and loaded with gear, electronics and sails! 

	I was excited to hear from this thread that there are a few C38s in my area. The G.O.B. Regatta sounds fun as hell, and hopefully in the future I could catch up with you, crew for you, or race along side of you... but for the immediate future, I was wondering if I might solicit some advice on a few things related to winch upgrades / access, and dodgers frames.

	Winch Upgrades / Access: 

	I still have the old Lewmar 48 3spds, and I've been anxious to switch them out for STs. So, I found a GREAT deal on a set of Lewmar 48STOR alloys off a boat in annap., but when I went to put them on I found two things: 1) There was virtually NO access to the portside winch due to a propane locker and the actual position of the winch itself and, 2) the physical dimensions of these new 48s were significantly smaller than the 3spds... so much so, that I just didn't think they were beefy enough to use, not to mention the glass work that I'd have to do to cover up the now exposed old bolt hole pattern.

	I was thinking of stepping it up to the Lewmar 58stors (found a deal on those too). They look as if they will match in foot print and physical size much closer. 

	I've tried to do some online photo research to see what other C38s have, but honestly, it looks as if the majority (of the ones that are for sale at least), still have the old 3spds. 

	So.... what do I use? What is a popular model for primary winch upgrades? 58s?  And... how about port access... honestly, it's really looking like I have to cut a new access panel in the headliner above the galley ice box.(?)

	Factory dodger frames:

	I would very much like to install a California-style dodger. Was this a factory option when new? Are there factory frame templates that exist anywhere? Any recommendations for who to use locally (Balt / Annap), or where to obtain one? Obviously I can go custom, just thought I'd ask.

	Again, sorry for the intrusion to this thread.... Please let me know if there is a proper way to do this stuff.

	Thanx for listening, and I look forward to being a productive member of this list. So far I couldn't be more satisfied with owning a C38.

	Mark O'Dell
	Momentous
	C38 #230
	Baltimore, MD

	On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com> wrote:

		Hey Chuck,
		We are on the same page her...
		I just checked the manual from my friends transmission, guess what! It's a Technodrive twin disc unit. This one is the 60 model (Hurth hbw125 replacement) and the cost was $1260. The 40 is $980 at Transmission Marine in Fourt Lauderdale. This is by far the cheapest place that I have found for transmissions and parts.  Www. Marinegears.com <http://marinegears.com/> 
		Regards, max

		Sent from my iPod

		On Sep 19, 2011, at 7:14, Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:

			Max,
			This looks very much like the Beta Marine transmission I installed this summer!  TECHNODRIVE Twin Disc TMC 40 P transmission, NEW: US $1,098.00  
			from http://soundmarinediesel.com/transmissions.shtml
			My original Hurth ZF failed last summer and I had it rebuilt.  Whole job cost about $3000 and took more than a month.  It failed again this summer with less than 40 hours total on the transmission.    I don't know whether the second failure  was due to a bad rebuild or shoddy workmanship by Shelburne Boatyard (of the 8 bolts that hold the transmission to the engine, 3 were so loose they were removed without a wrench).  Our webmaster (Anders) removed the Hurth transmission the second time around and it took him 45 minutes.  

			I did have problems with the original Beta transmission sent (it would not reliably shift into forward), but the folks at sound marine diesel were so accommodating that despite having to switch it out I would still recommend them.  They spent a couple hours on the phone with me and even sent the replacement without charging me for having two of their transmissions in my possession  (I wanted the replacement on hand so I could change it out when I had the time).
			You should also be aware there is a 1/4 inch difference in the height of these transmissions.  For those of us keeping the 5424, this requires we lower the engine a 1/4 inch.  This can be challenging, given where our motor mounts are and the fact most folks will find the nuts and threads are in rough shape.  Speaking of motor mounts!  I highly recommended that you change out your motor mounts and install a flex coupler when changing the transmission!  You can pretty much bet your motor mounts need replacing after 10 years and some engine manufacturers recommend half that time.   Another reason to change your motor mounts during transmission work is there is a lot more room back there to work without the transmission in the way and it takes about 40 pounds off the motor lift. 
			And don't let a boatyard tell you you need to pull the boat to do this!  I paid for three lifts ($900) because Shelburne Boatyard insisted this was necessary. They said the prop shaft would have to be removed to make room.  After disconnecting the drive shaft coupling, put a hose clamp on the end of the shaft and slide it back until there is enough room to work on the transmission  (the hose coupling ensures you don't accidentally let the shaft slide out of the boat).

			Yes, Steve, I need to write this up as a tech article!

			Chuck Finn
			Mighty Quinn  #114
			Great Lakes

			On 9/18/2011 10:12 PM, Max Soto wrote: 

				Hi everybody,

				For those who are planning to replace the Hurth HBW100 or newer ZF  M10 from the Universal 5424, M35 and  25XP series, according to some marine engine manufacturers and some forums, these new ZF trannys are now half as strong and reliable as our old long lasting Hurths....
				I was told that the place that makes all the internals is not the same and this is what made the huge difference.
				 When I was quoting, I was told by the engine sales person  to buy the bobtail engine and install my old transmission instead of the new ZF10 that they use, or go to the new Twin Disc MG340.  The twin disc MG340 is the right replacement for our engines, and is what Phasor MArine and Betamarine are recommending now after so many problems with  customers that were using ZF10.... 
				They share the same foot print, shaft and coupling measures, so,  same damper plate and bellhousing adaptor can be used. Engine just has to be raised 5mm and shifting cable routed to port of the tranny,  and that's it. They are supposed to be stronger and more reliable. Plus, they are a few bucks cheaper.  I know it because I just bought one for a friend with a Perkins engine...

				http://www.twindisc.com/MarineProducts/MarineTransSeries_mg_340.html

				Again, this is just what I have been told, but after checking some forums, it appears to be true..... If planning to go this way, please do your own research... But hopefully, this will help some of you..

				Regards,

				Max Soto
				C38 #198 ESTANCIA
				Puntarenas, Costa Rica

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