[C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Fri Apr 13 21:37:17 EDT 2012

We "had" a fuel problem, it was the darn vent hose sucking sea water up into
the fuel tank.  Re routed it an no problems any more.

Best regards,

Larry Malmberg
Team Hassle

  _____  

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of tdtron at earthlink.net
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Good report Steve!

I am retired from the automotive business and I have seen cars with
intermittent fuel starvation caused by a piece of paper in the fuel tank
that would suck up to the fuel line and once the car died and sat idle for
awhile it would crank again.

We have sent wreckers to get disabled cars from the highway with this
problem and the wrecker driver would be able to crank the cars and drive
them up on their flatbed trucks.  

Nothing is worse than an intermittent problem. "You can't fix it if it ain't
broke"

Tom Troncalli

----- Original Message ----- 
From: S Orton <mailto:ssorton at hotmail.com>  
To: Cat 38 <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org> 
Sent: 4/13/2012 7:57:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Max,  I need to weigh in with my three year fuel saga.  My problem would
occur when running the engine for a good two hours at max cruise (2400 rpm)
coming back from the Ensenada race at night.  Four of the six of us would be
sound asleep to the drone the of the diesel and then nothing.  We do the
messy changing filters etc (takes about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour), bleed the
lines and start the engine.  It roars to life, we are back in the rack
asleep, another 1-2 hours and silence again.  We repeat this until we limp
into customs in San Diego.  The next year we race to Ensenada with a new
fuel pump and on the way home the same thing happens- our sleep is
interrupted!  For the following year we replace the old Racor suction filter
and the same damn thing happen!  Only one thing left to do- take a look at
the pickup hose in the bottom of the tank.  We found a very small SS fine
wire screen at the end of the hose (about 3/8 dia X 3/4 long) half plugged.
We removed it and threw it overb'd- end of problem.  A two bit item caused
three years of grief.  What was happening was after hours of engine
operation, the small screen would become plugged, the engine stopped, and
while replacing filters and bleeding fuel lines, the boat is bouncing over
swells, would free up the pickup screen (with no suction press on it), and
the engine would roar back to life, until... I don't know if this was
standard equipment or not, but it was stupid- you don't put a tiny suction
filter( screen) where it can't be easily serviced when you have a great
Racor suction filter to collect debris off the tank bottom.   
So Max, if your pump seems normal, and you still have problems, check out
the two bit pickup hose.
Cheers, Steve O   

  _____  

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:47:11 -0700
From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
To: listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Dang Max, Thank you I never knew that was there

Steve

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:53 AM
To: Larrypi at roadrunner.com; Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Totally right Larry, 

The Racor will be working before the fuel pump. 

Everybody should keep in mind that these pumps has a filter inside of it
that should be checked every now and then.

That filter is also replaceable.

Check it out here:

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display
<http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_
ID=1634&ParentCat=71> &product_ID=1634&ParentCat=71 

Regards,

Max

El 12 de abril de 2012 11:39, Larry Malmberg <Larrypi at roadrunner.com>
escribi?:

Max, If I were you I would keep at least one filter between the fuel tank
and the fuel pump, this will insure that your fuel pump doesn't get plugged
up, then as many filters as you want from the fuel pump to the injector
pump.

Best regards,

Larry Malmberg

7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
Telephone  909-208-1847
FAX           909-991-7568

E Mail  Larrypi at roadrunner.com

Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly,
Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..

"The American Indians found out what happens when  you don't control
immigration"

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW-- What a
Ride!"

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, copying,
use, disclosure or distribution of any parts of the contents of this
message/information is prohibited by federal law. Attempts to intercept this
message are in violation of Title 18 USC 2511(1) of the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), which subjects the interceptor to fines,
imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.

  _____  

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:19 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve

Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

I guess that I will have to move the pump between the Racor and spin-on, and
get rid of the first in line filters.. With the current set up, I have three
fuel filters on the same line.... Amazingly this is the only job that I'm
going to perform that  doesn't include any expenses! LOL 

Regards,

Max

El 12 de abril de 2012 07:05, D McC <cat38skip at yahoo.com> escribi?:

Max,
The lift pump should always be after the primary fuel filters. It sucks the
fuel through the filters. That's why there are often inline vacuum gauges to
let you know when a filter is in need of replacing.  

 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Common Sense is a rare gift from the Gods.
Most people have only technical training!

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
sailing.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 

When in doubt, try the vice You haven't tried before! 

  _____  

From: Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>

To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 8:53:39 PM
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

One more question... 

I noticed that on Estancia, the fuel line leaves the tank straight forward
to the fuel pump, then the Racor, and then to the engine spin-on filter.
There was a small outboard style inline filter between the tank and the
pump, but I got rid of it.

I'm also thinking that the PO installed the pump first for better suction,
but shouldn't the Racor  be  located first???  Other wise the pump element
can get clogged... Am I right or completely lost???

Regards,

Max

El 11 de abril de 2012 10:53, Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com> escribi?:

Dave and Tom, 

Thanks  a lot. Now I know that almost any pump for a carburated engine will
work. I wasn't able to find a facet (now Purolator) pump here, so I found it
for $69 on ebay, and Catalinadirect asks $237 for the same pump. That pump
has a filter element on the inside, and I was hoping that it was just
clogged but it was clean.. I wasn{t aware that it also has a magnet for
collecting debris.   

 I just took a spare pump that my father has for his old Jag while I get the
new one...

I've been planning to install a outboard prime bulb to my engine, just for
back up, but you know, it was not on my priorities list... ask me now! LOL

Regards,

Max

El 11 de abril de 2012 05:58, tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>
escribi?:

Hello Max,

I don't know what the recommended supply pressure is for the Universals but
these engine as you know you have two pumps, the electric lift pump and the
mechanical injector pump.

The electric pump is the "lift" pump and it's only duty is to supply fuel to
the injector pump and the actual pressure should not be important.

I was on a sail around the Florida Keys once in a Contessa 26 with a British
Petter engine and the engine driven mechanical pump failed causing the
engine to die coming into Ft. Lauderdale.  We diagnosed the problem that the
diaphragm in the cam driven automotive type mechanical pump had ruptured
causing loss of pressure to the injector pump.

We sailed without power back to a slip near the 17th Street causeway sailing
by million dollar yachts hoping we could maintain control in a narrow
channel.  That was a really nervous adventure.  It was on a Sunday morning
and we couldn't find anyone open who could sell us a replacement pump to fit
the Petter engine.

As a "Rube Goldberg" remedy, we raised the fuel tank that was mounted in the
port sail locker high enough to gravity feed the engine.

By raising the fuel tank we were able to crank up and head out of the harbor
and down the Keys with no further problems.  Several years later my friend
who owned the boat sold it but he never replaced the mechanical lift pump.
He removed the mechanical lift pump and covered the hole in the engine block
with a gasket cover plate and to this day that boat is still running with no
lift pump.  The head pressure of the fuel tank was only about 12" above
engine's injector pump but we found that we could still motor sail heeling
enough that the fuel tank was actually below the injector pump but since the
fuel line had no leaks, the vacuum held from the injector pump and the
engine ran without problems.

With a properly primed fuel line, from that experience I discovered that the
lift pump is really not needed.  However, if there is any leakage at all in
the fuel line the vacuum is lost and you will lose engine power so I am not
advocating getting rid of the lift pump but from my experience I don't think
the actually lift pump pressure is very important.

After my own experience I ran into another sailor who had a lift pump
failure and he made a temporary fuel line from an outboard fuel line and
used the primer bulb to prime his fuel injector pump.  The last time I ran
into this salty sailor his outboard fuel line with a primer bulb was still
his only lift pump and he never gave it another thought.  He was actually
running a negative pressure since his fuel tank was below his engine
injector pump.

Tom Troncalli

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Max Soto <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>  

To: Catalina 38  <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org> Listserve

Sent: 4/10/2012 4:48:07 PM 

Subject: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Hi there, 

Do anyone knows what's the electric fuel pump pressure that is used on the
Universal 5424 / M30 engines?? 

The original screw up my Eastern week trip when she died on me at the middle
of a channel, then, I  hit it with a wrench and started working.

With some gentile persuation every now and then with the wrench, she took me
back home......

I found several Facet pumps on ebay, same looks, but different pressure....

I'm planning to get something like this locally and save my next weekend
trip!

Regards,

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2411/4931 - Release Date: 04/12/12

_______________________________________________ Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attachments/20120413/dba5101f/attachment-0001.htm>