[C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Fri Apr 13 23:15:34 EDT 2012

Word of advice on the pumps, after the problems I had I replaced the pump with an off the shelf cheapie,  it crapped out the first season, Replacement of the same cheapie lasted another season  in talking with the Universal mechanic up here he recommended using the original equipment pump, in his experience they have been bullet proof in comparision to the  other brands.  More expensive but since switching no problems.  

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:08 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Hi Steve,

I already removed the screen when I repaired the tanks a few years back. Just like you did, I found it to be redundant... I got rid of it. I'm pretty sure that the pump is the problem. It took a couple of hits with a wrench in order to make it work.. some more hits every now and then took me back to my slip!!

After that, the engine run for two hours without any problems.. I was also considering that the ground connection might have had something to do with it, since when I took out the pump, noticed that the bolt was kinda loose .. so I'm going to give it another try with the prime bulb and the new pump ready.....

Regards,

Max 

El 13 de abril de 2012 17:57, S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com> escribió:

Max,  I need to weigh in with my three year fuel saga.  My problem would occur when running the engine for a good two hours at max cruise (2400 rpm) coming back from the Ensenada race at night.  Four of the six of us would be sound asleep to the drone the of the diesel and then nothing.  We do the messy changing filters etc (takes about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour), bleed the lines and start the engine.  It roars to life, we are back in the rack asleep, another 1-2 hours and silence again.  We repeat this until we limp into customs in San Diego.  The next year we race to Ensenada with a new fuel pump and on the way home the same thing happens- our sleep is interrupted!  For the following year we replace the old Racor suction filter and the same damn thing happen!  Only one thing left to do- take a look at the pickup hose in the bottom of the tank.  We found a very small SS fine wire screen at the end of the hose (about 3/8 dia X 3/4 long) half plugged.  We removed it and threw it overb'd- end of problem.  A two bit item caused three years of grief.  What was happening was after hours of engine operation, the small screen would become plugged, the engine stopped, and while replacing filters and bleeding fuel lines, the boat is bouncing over swells, would free up the pickup screen (with no suction press on it), and the engine would roar back to life, until... I don't know if this was standard equipment or not, but it was stupid- you don't put a tiny suction filter( screen) where it can't be easily serviced when you have a great Racor suction filter to collect debris off the tank bottom.  

So Max, if your pump seems normal, and you still have problems, check out the two bit pickup hose.

Cheers, Steve O   

________________________________

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:47:11 -0700
From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
To: listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Dang Max, Thank you I never knew that was there

Steve

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:53 AM
To: Larrypi at roadrunner.com; Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Totally right Larry, 

The Racor will be working before the fuel pump. 

Everybody should keep in mind that these pumps has a filter inside of it that should be checked every now and then.

That filter is also replaceable.

Check it out here:

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1634&ParentCat=71 

Regards,

Max

El 12 de abril de 2012 11:39, Larry Malmberg <Larrypi at roadrunner.com> escribió:

Max, If I were you I would keep at least one filter between the fuel tank and the fuel pump, this will insure that your fuel pump doesn't get plugged up, then as many filters as you want from the fuel pump to the injector pump.

Best regards,

Larry Malmberg

7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
Telephone  909-208-1847
FAX           909-991-7568

E Mail  Larrypi at roadrunner.com

Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..

"The American Indians found out what happens when  you don't control
immigration"

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW-- What a
Ride!"

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, copying,
use, disclosure or distribution of any parts of the contents of this
message/information is prohibited by federal law. Attempts to intercept this
message are in violation of Title 18 USC 2511(1) of the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), which subjects the interceptor to fines,
imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.

________________________________

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:19 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve

Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

I guess that I will have to move the pump between the Racor and spin-on, and get rid of the first in line filters.. With the current set up, I have three fuel filters on the same line.... Amazingly this is the only job that I'm going to perform that  doesn't include any expenses! LOL 

Regards,

Max

El 12 de abril de 2012 07:05, D McC <cat38skip at yahoo.com> escribió:

Max,
The lift pump should always be after the primary fuel filters. It sucks the fuel through the filters. That's why there are often inline vacuum gauges to let you know when a filter is in need of replacing.  

 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Common Sense is a rare gift from the Gods.
Most people have only technical training!

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in sailing.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 

When in doubt, try the vice You haven't tried before! 

________________________________

From: Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>

To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 8:53:39 PM
Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

One more question... 

I noticed that on Estancia, the fuel line leaves the tank straight forward to the fuel pump, then the Racor, and then to the engine spin-on filter. There was a small outboard style inline filter between the tank and the pump, but I got rid of it.

I'm also thinking that the PO installed the pump first for better suction, but shouldn't the Racor  be  located first???  Other wise the pump element can get clogged... Am I right or completely lost???

Regards,

Max

El 11 de abril de 2012 10:53, Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com> escribió:

Dave and Tom, 

Thanks  a lot. Now I know that almost any pump for a carburated engine will work. I wasn't able to find a facet (now Purolator) pump here, so I found it for $69 on ebay, and Catalinadirect asks $237 for the same pump. That pump has a filter element on the inside, and I was hoping that it was just clogged but it was clean.. I wasn{t aware that it also has a magnet for collecting debris.   

 I just took a spare pump that my father has for his old Jag while I get the new one...

I've been planning to install a outboard prime bulb to my engine, just for back up, but you know, it was not on my priorities list... ask me now! LOL

Regards,

Max

El 11 de abril de 2012 05:58, tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net> escribió:

Hello Max,

I don't know what the recommended supply pressure is for the Universals but these engine as you know you have two pumps, the electric lift pump and the mechanical injector pump.

The electric pump is the "lift" pump and it's only duty is to supply fuel to the injector pump and the actual pressure should not be important.

I was on a sail around the Florida Keys once in a Contessa 26 with a British Petter engine and the engine driven mechanical pump failed causing the engine to die coming into Ft. Lauderdale.  We diagnosed the problem that the diaphragm in the cam driven automotive type mechanical pump had ruptured causing loss of pressure to the injector pump.

We sailed without power back to a slip near the 17th Street causeway sailing by million dollar yachts hoping we could maintain control in a narrow channel.  That was a really nervous adventure.  It was on a Sunday morning and we couldn't find anyone open who could sell us a replacement pump to fit the Petter engine.

As a "Rube Goldberg" remedy, we raised the fuel tank that was mounted in the port sail locker high enough to gravity feed the engine.

By raising the fuel tank we were able to crank up and head out of the harbor and down the Keys with no further problems.  Several years later my friend who owned the boat sold it but he never replaced the mechanical lift pump.  He removed the mechanical lift pump and covered the hole in the engine block with a gasket cover plate and to this day that boat is still running with no lift pump.  The head pressure of the fuel tank was only about 12" above engine's injector pump but we found that we could still motor sail heeling enough that the fuel tank was actually below the injector pump but since the fuel line had no leaks, the vacuum held from the injector pump and the engine ran without problems.

With a properly primed fuel line, from that experience I discovered that the lift pump is really not needed.  However, if there is any leakage at all in the fuel line the vacuum is lost and you will lose engine power so I am not advocating getting rid of the lift pump but from my experience I don't think the actually lift pump pressure is very important.

After my own experience I ran into another sailor who had a lift pump failure and he made a temporary fuel line from an outboard fuel line and used the primer bulb to prime his fuel injector pump.  The last time I ran into this salty sailor his outboard fuel line with a primer bulb was still his only lift pump and he never gave it another thought.  He was actually running a negative pressure since his fuel tank was below his engine injector pump.

Tom Troncalli

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Max Soto <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>  

	To: Catalina 38 Listserve <mailto:Listserve at catalina38.org> 

	Sent: 4/10/2012 4:48:07 PM 

	Subject: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

	Hi there, 

	Do anyone knows what's the electric fuel pump pressure that is used on the Universal 5424 / M30 engines?? 

	The original screw up my Eastern week trip when she died on me at the middle of a channel, then, I  hit it with a wrench and started working.

	With some gentile persuation every now and then with the wrench, she took me back home......

	I found several Facet pumps on ebay, same looks, but different pressure....

	I'm planning to get something like this locally and save my next weekend trip!

	Regards,

	-- 
	Max Soto
	C38 #198 ESTANCIA
	Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

________________________________

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2411/4931 - Release Date: 04/12/12

_______________________________________________ Listserve mailing list Listserve at catalina38.org http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

_______________________________________________
Listserve mailing list
Listserve at catalina38.org
http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attachments/20120413/0a39c78c/attachment-0001.htm>