[C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure

Sun Apr 15 16:19:40 EDT 2012

Totally right Tom,

While taking out the pump, I noticed that all the hoses  were all cracked
and also found two broken hose clamps.
Everything should be replaced..
A long time ago, on my father's yacht, we also had the fuel lines taking
air and loosing prime. Turned out that the problem was the shut off valve
from the diesel tank. That also happend to a fellow sailior. He had to
prime his engine every 25 hours, and the valve was the problem. In both
cases, no visible leaks...

Regards, Max

El 14 de abril de 2012 06:36, tdtron at earthlink.net
<tdtron at earthlink.net>escribió:

>  *Hello Group,*
> **
> *If I can be allowed to provide another two cents of my thoughts here, if
> a lift pump is required to keep an engine running, it probably means you
> not only possibly have a bad or intermittent electric lift pump but also,
> and more importantly, air leak(s) between the fuel tank and injection
> pump.  *
> **
> *The loss of prime can be caused by porous old rubber fuel lines as well
> as leaks at hose fittings and in-line filters where bowl gaskets can get
> old and brittle causing leaks.  It only takes a very small amount of air to
> break the vacuum causing a loss of prime to the injector pump.  If you see
> any diesel fuel anywhere between the fuel tank and engine you have probably
> found your leak problem but the amount of diesel spilled will usually be
> amazingly small.  You may not find any diesel on the fuel line at all but
> air can still be encroaching from porous lines or small imperfections in
> filter gaskets, etc.*
> **
> *The original rubber hoses on our boats tend to become porous over
> time causing encroachment of air causing loss of prime.  The hose material
> used on modern outboard fuel lines is much better quality than our original
> rubber hoses and would probably make a good choice for a hose upgrade.*
> **
> *Tom Troncalli*
> *Ex-Mechanic, Retired and tired again*
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>
> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> *Sent:* 4/13/2012 11:08:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>
> Hi Steve,
> I already removed the screen when I repaired the tanks a few years back.
> Just like you did, I found it to be redundant... I got rid of it. I'm
> pretty sure that the pump is the problem. It took a couple of hits with a
> wrench in order to make it work.. some more hits every now and then took me
> back to my slip!!
>
> After that, the engine run for two hours without any problems.. I was also
> considering that the ground connection might have had something to do with
> it, since when I took out the pump, noticed that the bolt was kinda loose
> .. so I'm going to give it another try with the prime bulb and the new pump
> ready.....
> Regards,
> Max
>
> El 13 de abril de 2012 17:57, S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com> escribió:
>
>>  Max,  I need to weigh in with my three year fuel saga.  My problem
>> would occur when running the engine for a good two hours at max cruise
>> (2400 rpm) coming back from the Ensenada race at night.  Four of the six of
>> us would be sound asleep to the drone the of the diesel and then nothing.
>>  We do the messy changing filters etc (takes about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour),
>> bleed the lines and start the engine.  It roars to life, we are back in the
>> rack asleep, another 1-2 hours and silence again.  We repeat this until we
>> limp into customs in San Diego.  The next year we race to Ensenada with a
>> new fuel pump and on the way home the same thing happens- our sleep
>> is interrupted!  For the following year we replace the old Racor suction
>> filter and the same damn thing happen!  Only one thing left to do- take a
>> look at the pickup hose in the bottom of the tank.  We found a very small
>> SS fine wire screen at the end of the hose (about 3/8 dia X 3/4 long) half
>> plugged.  We removed it and threw it overb'd- end of problem.  A two bit
>> item caused three years of grief.  What was happening was after hours of
>> engine operation, the small screen would become plugged, the engine
>> stopped, and while replacing filters and bleeding fuel lines, the boat is
>> bouncing over swells, would free up the pickup screen (with no suction
>> press on it), and the engine would roar back to life, until... I don't know
>> if this was standard equipment or not, but it was stupid- you don't put
>> a tiny suction filter( screen) where it can't be easily serviced when you
>> have a great Racor suction filter to collect debris off the tank bottom.
>> So Max, if your pump seems normal, and you still have problems, check out
>> the two bit pickup hose.
>> Cheers, Steve O
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:47:11 -0700
>> From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>> Subject: Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>>
>>  Dang Max, Thank you I never knew that was there
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
>> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Max Soto
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:53 AM
>> *To:* Larrypi at roadrunner.com; Catalina 38 Listserve
>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Totally right Larry,
>>
>> The Racor will be working before the fuel pump.
>>
>> Everybody should keep in mind that these pumps has a filter inside of it
>> that should be checked every now and then.
>>
>> That filter is also replaceable.
>>
>> Check it out here:
>>
>>
>> http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1634&ParentCat=71
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 12 de abril de 2012 11:39, Larry Malmberg <Larrypi at roadrunner.com>
>> escribió:
>>
>> Max, If I were you I would keep at least one filter between the fuel tank
>> and the fuel pump, this will insure that your fuel pump doesn't get plugged
>> up, then as many filters as you want from the fuel pump to the injector
>> pump.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Larry Malmberg
>>
>> 7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
>> Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
>> Telephone  909-208-1847
>> FAX           909-991-7568
>>
>> E Mail  Larrypi at roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly,
>> Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..
>>
>> "The American Indians found out what happens when  you don't control
>> immigration"
>>
>>
>> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
>> in
>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
>> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW-- What a
>> Ride!"
>>
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>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
>> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Max Soto
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:19 AM
>> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess that I will have to move the pump between the Racor and spin-on,
>> and get rid of the first in line filters.. With the current set up, I have
>> three fuel filters on the same line.... Amazingly this is the only job that
>> I'm going to perform that  doesn't include any expenses! LOL
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>> El 12 de abril de 2012 07:05, D McC <cat38skip at yahoo.com> escribió:
>>
>> Max,
>> The lift pump should always be after the primary fuel filters. It sucks
>> the fuel through the filters. That's why there are often inline vacuum
>> gauges to let you know when a filter is in need of replacing.
>>
>>
>>  <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>
>> Common Sense is a rare gift from the Gods.
>> Most people have only technical training!
>>
>>
>> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>
>> The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
>> sailing.
>>
>>
>>
>> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>
>>
>>
>> When in doubt, try the vice You haven't tried before!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>
>> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> *Sent:* Wed, April 11, 2012 8:53:39 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>>
>>
>> One more question...
>>
>>
>>
>> I noticed that on Estancia, the fuel line leaves the tank straight
>> forward to the fuel pump, then the Racor, and then to the engine spin-on
>> filter. There was a small outboard style inline filter between the tank and
>> the pump, but I got rid of it.
>>
>> I'm also thinking that the PO installed the pump first for better
>> suction, but shouldn't the Racor  be  located first???  Other wise the pump
>> element can get clogged... Am I right or completely lost???
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>> El 11 de abril de 2012 10:53, Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>> Dave and Tom,
>>
>> Thanks  a lot. Now I know that almost any pump for a carburated engine
>> will work. I wasn't able to find a facet (now Purolator) pump here, so I
>> found it for $69 on ebay, and Catalinadirect asks $237 for the same pump.
>> That pump has a filter element on the inside, and I was hoping that it was
>> just clogged but it was clean.. I wasn{t aware that it also has a magnet
>> for collecting debris.
>>
>>  I just took a spare pump that my father has for his old Jag while I get
>> the new one...
>>
>> I've been planning to install a outboard prime bulb to my engine, just
>> for back up, but you know, it was not on my priorities list... ask me now!
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 11 de abril de 2012 05:58, tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>
>> escribió:
>>
>> *Hello Max,*
>>
>>
>>
>> *I don't know what the recommended supply pressure is for the Universals
>> but these engine as you know you have two pumps, the electric lift pump and
>> the mechanical injector pump.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *The electric pump is the "lift" pump and it's only duty is to supply
>> fuel to the injector pump and the actual pressure should not be important.
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> *I was on a sail around the Florida Keys once in a Contessa 26 with a
>> British Petter engine and the engine driven mechanical pump failed causing
>> the engine to die coming into Ft. Lauderdale.  We diagnosed the problem
>> that the diaphragm in the cam driven automotive type mechanical pump had
>> ruptured causing loss of pressure to the injector pump.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *We sailed without power back to a slip near the 17th Street causeway
>> sailing by million dollar yachts hoping we could maintain control in a
>> narrow channel.  That was a really nervous adventure.  It was on a Sunday
>> morning and we couldn't find anyone open who could sell us a replacement
>> pump to fit the Petter engine.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *As a "Rube Goldberg" remedy, we raised the fuel tank that was mounted
>> in the port sail locker high enough to gravity feed the engine.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *By raising the fuel tank we were able to crank up and head out of the
>> harbor and down the Keys with no further problems.  Several years later my
>> friend who owned the boat sold it but he never replaced the mechanical lift
>> pump.  He removed the mechanical lift pump and covered the hole in the
>> engine block with a gasket cover plate and to this day that boat is still
>> running with no lift pump.  The head pressure of the fuel tank was only
>> about 12" above engine's injector pump but we found that we could still
>> motor sail heeling enough that the fuel tank was actually below the
>> injector pump but since the fuel line had no leaks, the vacuum held from
>> the injector pump and the engine ran without problems.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *With a properly primed fuel line, from that experience I discovered
>> that the lift pump is really not needed.  However, if there is any leakage
>> at all in the fuel line the vacuum is lost and you will lose engine power
>> so I am not advocating getting rid of the lift pump but from my experience
>> I don't think the actually lift pump pressure is very important.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *After my own experience I ran into another sailor who had a lift pump
>> failure and he made a temporary fuel line from an outboard fuel line and
>> used the primer bulb to prime his fuel injector pump.  The last time I ran
>> into this salty sailor his outboard fuel line with a primer bulb was still
>> his only lift pump and he never gave it another thought.  He was actually
>> running a negative pressure since his fuel tank was below his engine
>> injector pump.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tom Troncalli*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>
>> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve <Listserve at catalina38.org>
>>
>> *Sent:* 4/10/2012 4:48:07 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* [C38] Facet Fuel Pump pressure
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Do anyone knows what's the electric fuel pump pressure that is used on
>> the Universal 5424 / M30 engines??
>>
>> The original screw up my Eastern week trip when she died on me at the
>> middle of a channel, then, I  hit it with a wrench and started working.
>>
>> With some gentile persuation every now and then with the wrench, she took
>> me back home......
>>
>> I found several Facet pumps on ebay, same looks, but different
>> pressure....
>>
>> I'm planning to get something like this locally and save my next weekend
>> trip!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>  ------------------------------
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>
>
> --
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>
>
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-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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