[C38] tide reversals in SFB

Mon Aug 10 15:59:53 EDT 2015

That Rocna anchor looks like the Delta we used for years but unlike the 
Delta plow the Rocna has a bale which would be great for a trip line.

Skip mentioned below that he is concerned about the Rocna plow making a 
shallow row but in the many times we used our Delta plow it never 
dragged once.  The harder the pull, the deeper it digs down. My boat was 
in Florida and our holding grounds were almost always a sand bottom 
where both plows and fluke anchors really hold well once they bury 
deeply.  I have no personal experience with the Super Max anchor Skip 
mentioned but it seems to be an interesting breed of of a plow which 
appears to possibly hold quicker without having to bury deeply first.

Regardless of the type of anchor used, my own experience has been that a 
good chain rode, even a short one in a chain to rope rode, is 
indispensable for a good set and holding power and the more chain the 
better.

We had a Delta plow and our other anchor was an aluminum Guardian which 
is a less expensive model of the Fortress anchor.  In heavy seas I had 
to use the Guardian fluke anchor while under way because the Delta 
traveled stored on the bow roller and if we plowed the bow in a wave it 
would damage the retainer pin holding the anchor allowing the anchor to 
free itself from the roller.  The fluke type Guardian was lighter and we 
had it mounted higher on bow pulpit brackets out of the way of the waves 
but still on the bow ready when needed.

There are almost as many anchor types as opinions and I think most 
anchors have merit.  Most that is.  The anchors on my navy ship, the USS 
Yosemite AD19, used a crude "Navy" anchor which was incredibly heavy and 
had no holding advantage other than brute weight but somehow they 
worked.  Enough weight will hold anything.    We swung on the hook in 
Guantanamo Bay for a month and even in heavy winds we held with the many 
tons of anchor and chain.  I have seen small navy type anchors on small 
vessels and they have about as much holding power, or less, than a 
mushroom "lunch hook" and are awfully heavy for their holding power.

For my own use, I have had good results with both the Danforth fluke 
types and the plow anchors and I have no opinion which is better other 
than I like the light weight of the Danforth types like the aluminum 
Guardian which is easier to handle and less weight on the bow.  Most of 
my anchoring experience has been in the Bahamas and Florida which both 
offer sand bottoms so my experience is limited in marl, rock, mud, etc. 
which others of you may experience.

Tom Troncalli

On 8/10/2015 2:38 PM, SkipMeisch wrote:
> Rocna?
> No thank you!
> 38# Super Max for me.
>
> http://www.creativemarine.com/catalog/text/anchor.html
>
> I prefer an anchor designed to hold. Rather than one designed to plow a shallow row for planting corn.
>
> Skip Meisch
> Port Of Poulsbo
>   
>
>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Charles Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:
>>
>> Tom,
>> I too hear time and again about how chain jerks them around when my experience is rope is the uncomfortable ride!  One also has to wonder how folks on rope are able to anchor these days around other boats that have moved to chain...  The math is pretty clear that you need a whole lot more rope vs chain and when the boats do their tidal dance... the guy on rope is going to cause problems for the rest!
>> My basic rule of thumb is to have 3x the chain as the depth I normally anchor in.  5/16" chain is about right for our boats.
>>
>> For those who want to go to the source:  Buy the Complete Anchoring Handbook:  Stay Put on Any Bottom in Any Weather.  By: Poiraud, Alain; Ginsberg-Klemmt, Achim.   250 pages of anchoring analysis and advice that you just won't be able to put down if you are as crazy as I am!
>>
>> By the way, my next anchor absolutely will be a Rocna 44 lb.  $400 is a steep price, but a good night's sleep is priceless!
>>
>> Chuck Finn
>> Mighty Quinn  #114
>> Great Lakes
>>
>>> On 8/10/2015 1:11 PM, Tom Troncalli wrote:
>>> I was on a friend's boat once in the Bahamas and we entered an anchorage during a summer squall.  We motored to weather to drop the hook and we let out considerable nylon rope rode.  We went about getting supper ready, etc., but the surge on the rode kept everyone falling all over the place as waves came into the cove where we were anchored.
>>>
>>> The owner of the boat finally had enough of this mayhem and decided to motor forward toward the anchor and replace that anchor with one with a total chain rode.
>>>
>>> We swapped anchors and rodes and the boat settled down like it was beached on high ground.  The chain held us in place so the wave action didn't push the boat rearward which allowed a much more comfortable situation.  Because the anchor rode was total chain, we didn't have to worry about getting fouled in a tide reversal as we had on previous occasions.
>>>
>>> After that experience, we always either used a total chain rode or a very long chain rode to rope rode where it transitioned via a swivel.  On my boat I used an over sized swivel between the chain and rope to help act as a kellet weight.
>>>
>>> Another friend who claimed to have a lot of sailing experience said he would never use a total chain rode because it would be too jerky when the boat pitched against the waves, just the exact opposite of our experiences.  I doubt he had ever experience a chain rode.
>>>
>>> If you tie to a dock with short chains, jerky shocks would be true but with a long rode of chain to an anchor, the catenary, or gravity sag, in the rode path to the anchor,  gives enough shock absorption to keep the boat safely in place without jerking.  A nylon rode will stretch when waves hit causing an elastic surge forward during troughs between the waves.
>>>
>>> The weight of a chain anchor rode also keeps the anchor pulling horizontal so holding is greatly improved even with a relatively light anchor and any kellet along the rode helps even more.
>>>
>>> I know I am "preaching to the choir" with most if not all of you but I am amazed at how many people have the wrong ideas about chain anchor rodes and kellets.
>>>
>>> Tom Troncalli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/3/2015 4:50 PM, Michelle wrote:
>>>> After some net surfing and post-event debriefing, we've learned (a) we need more chain rode and (b) we need a 15-20lb kellet to weigh down the rope rode and theoretically keep it plumb and away from the keel at turning tide.
>>>>
>>>> After the first mishap, I downloaded a free anchor dragging app to my iPhone (Drag Queen) and set it so we could get some sleep. It woke us for the second wrap and drag.
>>>>
>>>> We've anchored Dulcinea at Clipper Cove, Treasure Island and didn't have this happen. Perhaps we've been lucky the lee of the island is more protected from tidal flux than San Pablo Bay. We've anchored our Ranger 23 in many places and have never had this happen to Rigel.  Lessons learned! The only fouls were, well, the anchors, and we snapped one of our winch handles trying to grind in the hooks on our manual windlass that has no mechanical advantage, straight 1:1. Woof.
>>>>
>>>> We've now downloaded a book on anchoring to learn more and will definitely go back to China Camp, with more knowledge and more tackle tools better prepared next time!
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>> MD
>>>>
>>>> Michelle Diaz, BSN, RN
>>>> C38 Dulcinea #110
>>>> Sent from my iPhone...
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 13:33, Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle: Great story, and sorry about your tangle. We had 4 reversals during a night anchored at China Cove of Angel Island. The GPS alarm awoke me for the first two, and I happened to awake during the third, about 4 am. The final reversal came during morning coffee. No anchor drags, we were lucky.
>>>>> SFB tidal currents are wicked.
>>>>> Don, C38 Discreet Charm, Emery Cove
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/2/15 11:53 AM, Michelle wrote:
>>>>>>> We anchored out last night in the San Pablo Bay muck in the lovely general anchorage outside McNear's Beach, China Camp State Park, Marin County, CA with a 33lb claw anchor with 25' chain and 110' of rope rode. Twice in the night (once around 00:30 ~3 hours after setting anchor and 2hrs to high tide, the other this morning around 8:30a) Dulcinea had spun herself and wrapped her ground tackle around her keel and dragged anchor. It was no fun trying to undo the mess, twice. Thankfully we have a backup danforth that we dropped to slow the drag and give us time and slack on the primary tackle to untangle the keel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone have this happen to them? Any thoughts? We've never had this happen to us on our other boat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>> MD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michelle Diaz, BSN, RN
>>>>>>> C38 Dulcinea #110
>>>>>>> Alameda, CA
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone...
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Donald R. Strong
>>>>> Professor,
>>>>> Department of Evolution and Ecology
>>>>> and
>>>>> The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
>>>>> University of California, Davis,
>>>>> Davis CA
>>>>> 95616
>>>>> 530 752 7886
>>>>>
>>>>>
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