[C38] Autopilot installation, Discreet Charm

Don Strong drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Sat Aug 15 18:52:07 EDT 2020


   Max: Thanks for your interesting comments on my Alpha install. the 
Yacht Specialties pedestal and wheel are real fossils, but they continue 
to work; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I must say that the only 
problems in 18 years of sailing with this autopilot are with nuts that 
loosen in the mechanism; I have learned to fix these with Locktite and 
drilling holes through the nut and bolt for securing with wire or a key.
My sailing buddies are condescending about my "analog" rig, but hey, It 
works!
  Best of luck with your install.
Regards, Don

On 8/15/20 12:07 PM, Max soto wrote:
> Nice blog Don, that autopilots has a very simple set up. Love the fail 
> safe engaging mechanism.  The tiller arm is huge. Whoever installed it 
> was really lucky that the boat has a Yacht Specialties radial wheel 
> drive, which gives more space available than the Edson.   I’m getting 
> ideas from every pic I see.
> I got a complete New old stock Autohelm ST6000 With a huge linear 
> drive actuator, which  I’ll have to make it fit no matter what.  Will 
> take it to the boat next week after lockdown.
> The Cabo Rico building facility closed six years ago, anda that’s 
> where I got my autopilot system for $80 only!
> I’m planning to replace the rudder in a near future, and after seeing 
> the space available underneath an upsidown radial wheel installation, 
> I’ll be following that route.
>
> Regards
> Max Soto A.
> +506-8312-1367
> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 12:28, Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>  Max, Ray. The Alpha analog autopilot that came to us with Discreet 
>> Charm has worked for the 18 years that we have owned the boat. The 
>> install was very professional. Scroll down in the blog to Alpha 
>> autopilot. I would appreciate any comments. Have thought that if it 
>> failed I would go with a Pelagic as did Ray.
>> Regards, /don
>>
>> http://techdiscreetcharm.blogspot.com/
>>
>> On 8/14/20 11:11 AM, Ray Torok wrote:
>>> Hi Max,
>>>
>>> Yeah. I think I got carried away.
>>>
>>> If you can get a tiller arm in there, that is surely the better way 
>>> to go.
>>>
>>> The C34 attachment to the wheel did not look that great to me, in 
>>> light of how much force the actuator can generate, but if it works, 
>>> it works.
>>> I chickened out on that type of attachment, because I am used to San 
>>> Francisco, where it's often pretty windy, and you can really 
>>> load things up.
>>> I did not change the position of the radial wheel, as that looked 
>>> like a big job too (aluminum-stainless issues), and I thought it 
>>> would have required
>>> remounting the turning blocks at the base of the pedestal to get the 
>>> cable leads right.  It might have been smarter to start over with a 
>>> new wheel mounted higher.
>>>
>>> The hard rudder stops were interesting, because the first time I 
>>> tried it, the structure of the bulkhead at the aft end of the 
>>> cockpit was so flexible and delaminated,
>>> that it just didn't work.  I ended up injecting epoxy resin with 
>>> fillers into the voids to stiffen it up.
>>>
>>> Buena suerte,   Ray
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 9:18 PM Max soto <maxsoto at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Wow Ray, that was a huge job! The rudder stop looks great. Did
>>>     you radial drive wheel was installed like that? Mine is
>>>     installed upside down.  The bolts are below the wheel.. I saw
>>>     the same on Steve Smolinske’s boat, but I think they made it on
>>>     purpose to raise the wheel and install a tiler arm. They managed
>>>     to install a tiller arm below  the wheel.
>>>     Some people have installed the actuator directly to the wheel,
>>>     which is what I was planning to do.. seems to be a common set up
>>>     on Catalinas, even on the C42, but your set up seems much stronger.
>>>     The first pic is from a C34. Doesn’t look that good, but it works.
>>>     Second pic is from Steve’s boat. By raising the wheel I’ll have
>>>     more room  for work on a packing gland.
>>>     Regards,
>>>     Max Soto A.
>>>     +506-8312-1367
>>>     Alajuela, Costa Rica
>>>     <image0.jpeg>
>>>     <image1.jpeg>
>>>
>>>>     On Aug 13, 2020, at 15:24, Ray Torok <torok13731 at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:torok13731 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>     Hi Max,
>>>>
>>>>     Not sure if this will help, but a couple of years ago I
>>>>     installed a below deck autopilot system.
>>>>
>>>>     This turned into a big job.  I suppose I got carried away. 
>>>>     Most people probably would not go to this much trouble or be
>>>>     okay paying  someone to do it.  However, I would note that it
>>>>     worked great on a trip from San Francisco to La Paz and back. 
>>>>     We also replaced the old Raymarine control head with a
>>>>     Pelagic.  The old system simply could not control the boat when
>>>>     sailing downwind with quartering seas.  The new system drives
>>>>     the boat better than most people.
>>>>
>>>>     I wanted to install a below deck actuator for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>>     ·Bypass the steering cables to eliminate the slop introduced by
>>>>     the cable linkage and stretch (the old system used a
>>>>     motor/toothed gear assembly mounted on the pedestal)
>>>>
>>>>     ·Have backup steering in case a cable breaks
>>>>
>>>>     The main problems were:
>>>>
>>>>     ·Limited space for the actuator
>>>>
>>>>     ·Not enough space on the rudder post to install a small tiller
>>>>     arm above or below the quadrant (really a 360 degree disk in
>>>>     this boat). *If you don’t have that problem, the whole project
>>>>     gets much easier.*
>>>>
>>>>     ·The quadrant is not strong enough to take the load that the
>>>>     actuator can generate if there is simply a bolted attachment
>>>>     (Edson warns not to attach a ram to the quadrant).
>>>>
>>>>     I ended up designing and building a set of aluminum rings that
>>>>     bolt onto the quadrant to distribute the load imparted by the
>>>>     ram.  At the same time I installed hard rudder stops that a
>>>>     block mounted on the upper ring engages to limit rudder travel
>>>>     and prevent the ram from overrunning its range.  I also
>>>>     installed a rudder position sensor that the control head uses
>>>>     to limit rudder travel when the autopilot is engaged, so it
>>>>     never tries to drive the rudder against the hard stop.
>>>>
>>>>     I ended up with a Lecomble & Schmitt hydraulic actuator,
>>>>     because it was the only one I found that would fit in the space
>>>>     available, as the pump and actuator were separate units
>>>>     connected by hoses.  Longer electric units would extend into
>>>>     the cockpit locker and appeared much more difficult to mount.
>>>>     The static end of the actuator is bolted to an aluminum channel
>>>>     that is bolted to the underside of the cockpit sole behind the
>>>>     pedestal. I put the pump at the aft end of the cockpit locker,
>>>>     with the actuator just behind the adjacent partial bulkhead.  I
>>>>     also cut a large hatch into the floor of the cockpit locker to
>>>>     get better access to both the engine and the quadrant area.
>>>>
>>>>     Selected photos are attached.  I would be happy to discuss any
>>>>     of this further if that might help.
>>>>
>>>>     Good luck,
>>>>
>>>>     Ray #38 Thira
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:10 PM Max soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Hi everybody,
>>>>          It’s been nine years since we were in this subject.
>>>>         I’m going to make a second attempt to install a below deck
>>>>         unit. Will like something stronger than the wheelpilot.
>>>>         I assume/hope that someone might have installed one In this
>>>>         years. If so, please send pics and tips.
>>>>         I already have a Raymarine linear drIve type 1 ready to be
>>>>         installed. Hope I can make it fit somehow.
>>>>
>>>>         Regards,
>>>>         Max Soto A.
>>>>         +506-8312-1367
>>>>         C38 Estancia #198
>>>>         _______________________________________________
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>>>>         http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>
>>>>     <linear actuator - pump.JPG>
>>>>     <Al channel to hold actuator.JPG>
>>>>     <Al rings.JPG>
>>>>     <mounting bolts for actuator support.JPG>
>>>>     <Al rings - rudder stops - position sensor attachment.JPG>
>>>>     <pump enclosure.JPG>
>>>>     <pump in cockpit locker.JPG>
>>>>     <quadrant - rudder position sensor.JPG>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Donald R. Strong
>> Professor,
>> Department of Evolution and Ecology
>> and
>> The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
>> University of California, Davis,
>> Davis CA
>> 95616
>> 530 752 7886
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>
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-- 
Donald R. Strong
Professor,
Department of Evolution and Ecology
and
The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
University of California, Davis,
Davis CA
95616
530 752 7886

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