[C38] Autopilot installation, Discreet Charm
Don Strong
drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Sat Aug 15 18:52:07 EDT 2020
Max: Thanks for your interesting comments on my Alpha install. the
Yacht Specialties pedestal and wheel are real fossils, but they continue
to work; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I must say that the only
problems in 18 years of sailing with this autopilot are with nuts that
loosen in the mechanism; I have learned to fix these with Locktite and
drilling holes through the nut and bolt for securing with wire or a key.
My sailing buddies are condescending about my "analog" rig, but hey, It
works!
Best of luck with your install.
Regards, Don
On 8/15/20 12:07 PM, Max soto wrote:
> Nice blog Don, that autopilots has a very simple set up. Love the fail
> safe engaging mechanism. The tiller arm is huge. Whoever installed it
> was really lucky that the boat has a Yacht Specialties radial wheel
> drive, which gives more space available than the Edson. I’m getting
> ideas from every pic I see.
> I got a complete New old stock Autohelm ST6000 With a huge linear
> drive actuator, which I’ll have to make it fit no matter what. Will
> take it to the boat next week after lockdown.
> The Cabo Rico building facility closed six years ago, anda that’s
> where I got my autopilot system for $80 only!
> I’m planning to replace the rudder in a near future, and after seeing
> the space available underneath an upsidown radial wheel installation,
> I’ll be following that route.
>
> Regards
> Max Soto A.
> +506-8312-1367
> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 12:28, Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Max, Ray. The Alpha analog autopilot that came to us with Discreet
>> Charm has worked for the 18 years that we have owned the boat. The
>> install was very professional. Scroll down in the blog to Alpha
>> autopilot. I would appreciate any comments. Have thought that if it
>> failed I would go with a Pelagic as did Ray.
>> Regards, /don
>>
>> http://techdiscreetcharm.blogspot.com/
>>
>> On 8/14/20 11:11 AM, Ray Torok wrote:
>>> Hi Max,
>>>
>>> Yeah. I think I got carried away.
>>>
>>> If you can get a tiller arm in there, that is surely the better way
>>> to go.
>>>
>>> The C34 attachment to the wheel did not look that great to me, in
>>> light of how much force the actuator can generate, but if it works,
>>> it works.
>>> I chickened out on that type of attachment, because I am used to San
>>> Francisco, where it's often pretty windy, and you can really
>>> load things up.
>>> I did not change the position of the radial wheel, as that looked
>>> like a big job too (aluminum-stainless issues), and I thought it
>>> would have required
>>> remounting the turning blocks at the base of the pedestal to get the
>>> cable leads right. It might have been smarter to start over with a
>>> new wheel mounted higher.
>>>
>>> The hard rudder stops were interesting, because the first time I
>>> tried it, the structure of the bulkhead at the aft end of the
>>> cockpit was so flexible and delaminated,
>>> that it just didn't work. I ended up injecting epoxy resin with
>>> fillers into the voids to stiffen it up.
>>>
>>> Buena suerte, Ray
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 9:18 PM Max soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow Ray, that was a huge job! The rudder stop looks great. Did
>>> you radial drive wheel was installed like that? Mine is
>>> installed upside down. The bolts are below the wheel.. I saw
>>> the same on Steve Smolinske’s boat, but I think they made it on
>>> purpose to raise the wheel and install a tiler arm. They managed
>>> to install a tiller arm below the wheel.
>>> Some people have installed the actuator directly to the wheel,
>>> which is what I was planning to do.. seems to be a common set up
>>> on Catalinas, even on the C42, but your set up seems much stronger.
>>> The first pic is from a C34. Doesn’t look that good, but it works.
>>> Second pic is from Steve’s boat. By raising the wheel I’ll have
>>> more room for work on a packing gland.
>>> Regards,
>>> Max Soto A.
>>> +506-8312-1367
>>> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>>> <image0.jpeg>
>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 15:24, Ray Torok <torok13731 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:torok13731 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Max,
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if this will help, but a couple of years ago I
>>>> installed a below deck autopilot system.
>>>>
>>>> This turned into a big job. I suppose I got carried away.
>>>> Most people probably would not go to this much trouble or be
>>>> okay paying someone to do it. However, I would note that it
>>>> worked great on a trip from San Francisco to La Paz and back.
>>>> We also replaced the old Raymarine control head with a
>>>> Pelagic. The old system simply could not control the boat when
>>>> sailing downwind with quartering seas. The new system drives
>>>> the boat better than most people.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to install a below deck actuator for a couple of reasons:
>>>>
>>>> ·Bypass the steering cables to eliminate the slop introduced by
>>>> the cable linkage and stretch (the old system used a
>>>> motor/toothed gear assembly mounted on the pedestal)
>>>>
>>>> ·Have backup steering in case a cable breaks
>>>>
>>>> The main problems were:
>>>>
>>>> ·Limited space for the actuator
>>>>
>>>> ·Not enough space on the rudder post to install a small tiller
>>>> arm above or below the quadrant (really a 360 degree disk in
>>>> this boat). *If you don’t have that problem, the whole project
>>>> gets much easier.*
>>>>
>>>> ·The quadrant is not strong enough to take the load that the
>>>> actuator can generate if there is simply a bolted attachment
>>>> (Edson warns not to attach a ram to the quadrant).
>>>>
>>>> I ended up designing and building a set of aluminum rings that
>>>> bolt onto the quadrant to distribute the load imparted by the
>>>> ram. At the same time I installed hard rudder stops that a
>>>> block mounted on the upper ring engages to limit rudder travel
>>>> and prevent the ram from overrunning its range. I also
>>>> installed a rudder position sensor that the control head uses
>>>> to limit rudder travel when the autopilot is engaged, so it
>>>> never tries to drive the rudder against the hard stop.
>>>>
>>>> I ended up with a Lecomble & Schmitt hydraulic actuator,
>>>> because it was the only one I found that would fit in the space
>>>> available, as the pump and actuator were separate units
>>>> connected by hoses. Longer electric units would extend into
>>>> the cockpit locker and appeared much more difficult to mount.
>>>> The static end of the actuator is bolted to an aluminum channel
>>>> that is bolted to the underside of the cockpit sole behind the
>>>> pedestal. I put the pump at the aft end of the cockpit locker,
>>>> with the actuator just behind the adjacent partial bulkhead. I
>>>> also cut a large hatch into the floor of the cockpit locker to
>>>> get better access to both the engine and the quadrant area.
>>>>
>>>> Selected photos are attached. I would be happy to discuss any
>>>> of this further if that might help.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck,
>>>>
>>>> Ray #38 Thira
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:10 PM Max soto <maxsoto at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> It’s been nine years since we were in this subject.
>>>> I’m going to make a second attempt to install a below deck
>>>> unit. Will like something stronger than the wheelpilot.
>>>> I assume/hope that someone might have installed one In this
>>>> years. If so, please send pics and tips.
>>>> I already have a Raymarine linear drIve type 1 ready to be
>>>> installed. Hope I can make it fit somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Max Soto A.
>>>> +506-8312-1367
>>>> C38 Estancia #198
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>>>>
>>>> <linear actuator - pump.JPG>
>>>> <Al channel to hold actuator.JPG>
>>>> <Al rings.JPG>
>>>> <mounting bolts for actuator support.JPG>
>>>> <Al rings - rudder stops - position sensor attachment.JPG>
>>>> <pump enclosure.JPG>
>>>> <pump in cockpit locker.JPG>
>>>> <quadrant - rudder position sensor.JPG>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Donald R. Strong
>> Professor,
>> Department of Evolution and Ecology
>> and
>> The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
>> University of California, Davis,
>> Davis CA
>> 95616
>> 530 752 7886
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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--
Donald R. Strong
Professor,
Department of Evolution and Ecology
and
The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
University of California, Davis,
Davis CA
95616
530 752 7886
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