[C38] Rudder packing challenges 2

Don Strong drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Mon Jun 12 16:46:53 EDT 2006 

Rich is right on. The sideways play in the shaft creates a space through 
which water enters. Under power, water enters when the stern squats; under 
sail water enters when the boat heals to place the gland low to the water 
line. Perhaps I can stem the play with the bronze shimming.
         My pal has a gaitor (from "gait" as in walking, I believe) on the 
rudder post of his Erikson 35. Made it from an inner tube and two hose 
clamps. He says it works perfectly and  has been in place for several 
years.  He has 6 inches to work with on the Erikson; I have 6 mm below the 
steering quadrantm on Discreet Charm.  Almost impossible to get a wrench in 
there let alone a hose clamp
     However, for the first 2.5 years that I owned the boat the gland did 
not leak a drop, so a good seal is possible with the packing material.
don

At 12:09 PM 6/12/2006, you wrote:
>Don and all,
>
>On Legacy, I don't think it's that the packing is wearing out, but rather
>that the play in the shaft pushes the packing away from the shaft.  With
>this, even new packing doesn't stop the leak for long.  In my opinion, the
>packing gland on the rudder was just designed wrong.  It should be shaped in
>such a way that it squeezes the packing towards the shaft, not just
>flattening it.
>
>I'm still intrigued by the idea of a gator.  I did some looking around and
>put some stuff about it on my web page last year.  It's still there:
>http://www.idea-asylum.com/rudder_seal/
>
>The question I never answered to my satisfaction is whether or not a gator
>can be designed that will allow the rudder shaft to turn far enough.  I do
>have enough room below my quadrant for the gator and my quadrant has been
>lowered to make room for a lever arm for the autopilot.
>
>If I put a gator on my boat, I'd use a gasket under the gator flange that
>had a hole that rubbed on the shaft so that in the event of a catastrophic
>failure of the gator, the rubber gasket would restrict water flow.  Doing
>this, I wonder what the effect would be of non-circulating, stale water held
>in the gator and on the rudder shaft.
>
>For now, I just take the leak as a sign that I'm going fast!
>
>Rich, Legacy, #360
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org]On Behalf Of Don Strong
>Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:09 AM
>To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing challenges
>
>
>Dear C38 Colleagues.
>          Update my rudder packing efforts. As we discussed before and as
>Russ has observed today, with wheel steering the rudder tube is cut open in
>the middle for attaching the steering quadrant.  The bronze stuffing box is
>on the top of the bottom part of tube that the rudder shaft passes through,
>and the quadrant rides about 1/2 inch above the stuffing box. I do not
>think that a gaitor will fit on a tube with steering quadrants; too little
>room for attachment.  It is a huge job to remove the steering quadrant, but
>you must do so before replacing the packing/ stuffing.
>          I believe that I used 1/2 inch teflon coated synthetic stuffing
>from West Marine (This kind lasts longer and cuts more accurately than the
>natural old kind)  and was able to get three courses of it into the empty
>box. I hammered the stuffing on a wooden block to flatten it before
>insertion, this facilitates sliding the stuffing into the stuffing box. The
>distortion caused by hammering disappears when you tighten the squeeze
>bolts on the box.
>          However, my rudder shaft has lots and lots of play, and it needs
>shimming of at least 25 thousands of an inch on each side, as mesured in
>the cockpit at the tube top where the rudder attachment is fixed.
>          This play (I hope it is the play) means that even brand new
>stuffing wears out in a few hours of use. So, my rudder shaft leaks as much
>through the box as ever after only a few hours of use, with new
>stuffing.  It may be that I need to replace the bottom bearing ( is it
>delrin?) on the rudder, but that will have to wait till haul out. Im going
>to try to shim the top of the tube in the next month or so and will inform
>you all of my results.
>
>Still tryin' Don
>
>
>
>
>At 09:39 AM 6/12/2006, you wrote:
> >I searched my own archives and found the emails related to rudder packing.
> >I will look for some 1/2 inch packing and get that in there.
> >As soon as I can get my stuff together, I will try to compose a write up of
> >what I did.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Russ Duff
> >Electrical Applications Engineer
> >Climate Control
> >
> >RDUFF at VISTEON.COM
> >
> >Visteon Climate Control
> >METVIS
> >D-64
> >45000 Helm Street
> >Plymouth, MI  48170
> >
> >PHONE: 734-416-1511
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> >[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Charles Finn
> >Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:49 AM
> >To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> >Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing
> >
> >
> >Russ,
> >Didn't we discuss this a year or so ago?  I think Don talked about how
> >he repacked his box and there was also some discussion about a "gaitor?" I
> >can search my archives if that would help. BTW,  this would be a great set
> >of instructions for the website if you
> >would like to do so!
> >Thanks,
> >cf
> >
> >
> >Duff, Russ (R.W.) wrote:
> > > The discussion on the website is for getting the play out of the
> > > rudder tube.  This wasn't my question.  Because I have wheel steering,
> > > the rudder tube is cut open in the middle for attaching the steering
> > > quadrant, and there is a brass stuffing box on the top of the bottom
> > > tube that the rudder tube passes through.  This is where I need to
> > > replace the stuffing.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Russ Duff
> > > Catalina 38, Hull #112
> > > "AVANTURA"
> > > Lake Erie
> > > Grosse Ile, Michigan
> > > RDUFF AT VISTEON DOT COM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Charles Finn
> > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:29 AM
> > > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > > Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing
> > >
> > >
> > > Russ,
> > > There is a complete discussion (with sketches) for this repair on the
> > > website.  Hope it helps.
> > >
> > > Charles Finn
> > > Mighty Quinn #114
> > >
> > > Duff, Russ (R.W.) wrote:
> > >
> > >> What is used for packing in the rudder tube?  I had to drop the
> > >> rudder to repair the floor, so I figured while it is apart, I might
> > >> as well repack the rudder tube.  But, what do I use?
> > >>
> > >> BTW, the floor repair ended up being a bigger job than anticipated,
> > >> but it is DONE!!!  I won't be afraid to reef on the wheel or pedestal
> > >> guard any more (I could wobble it all over with just one hand
> > >> before).  I will post some photos when I finally develop them all.
> > >>
> > >> Sincerely,
> > >> * Russ Duff *
> > >> Catalina 38, Hull #112
> > >> "AVANTURA"
> > >> Lake Erie
> > >> Grosse Ile, Michigan
> > >> RDUFF */ AT /* VISTEON */ DOT /* COM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> -
> > >> --
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