[C38] FW: Re: Keel Stub Wood Removal?

[Tom T.]

Hello list,

>From my understanding, there is a piece of plywood sandwiched in the layup
in the bottom of our keel stub. Why it is there I have no idea but it can
soften over time causing a loose keel, hence the "Catalina Smile."

The good news, it's not fatal.  I tried to find my information on the
repair to no avail but I think the procedure is to dry the keel with the
boat on the hard, mainly supported by the keel.  Anyway, this is how I
would do it sans documentation:


Remove the keel bolts on one end of the bilge and grind down to remove the
top layer of fiberglass and wood, carefully staying away from the keel
studs with the grinder, chisel etc.

Once that area is ground out and clean, wipe it with acetone to further
prep it for the new glass. Wrap some electrical tape around the keel studs
to prevent the new fiberglass from sticking to the studs and begin a new
layup in the prepped area using strips of overlaying glass and letting the
glass to partially come up the sides fully lining the bilge.  Use many
layers of cloth and not roven woven etc for maximum strength with a high
glass to resin ratio.  Apply the glass with a small roller to wet it out
with minimum resin.

After that area is glassed in, you can remove the tape and replace the
nuts.  If you replace the nuts before the fiberglass is fully cured you may
produce a better seat for the washer and nut making a better contact with
the new glass.

Move on to the next area and begin the operation again.  By doing the bilge
in stages, you don't  have to worry about the keel shifting, even though
that is highly unlikely.  It adds very little extra time to work in stages
than trying to do the whole keel at once.  By working in stages, you could
do this procedure in the water if you can keep the bilge dry enough.  Even
if you removed the keel wood just to the forward edge of the bilge opening
without going to the forward bolt, you may have an adequate repair.

To get to the forward area of the bilge you will have to remove the toilet
holding tank.  If you remove it, you will want to re-bed the tank with foam
to give it better support to eliminate flexing and sagging which will cause
failure to the tank eventually.  The tanks are flat on the bottom but the
hull is round leaving an inch or so of unsupported space below the holding
tank.  As the tanks get older, they get more brittle.

If you wrap the bottom of the holding tank with a thin sheet of plastic
before you re-install it, you can put a puddle of "Great Stuff" foam on the
hull.  When you immediately lay the tank in, the foam will spread out and
give the bottom of the holding tank support for many more years of service.

I added a long tube to my foam can to shoot under the tank after it was
installed so I could connect the hoses first.  I extended the tube to the
forward side of the holding tank and slowly pulled it aft while releasing
the contents of the can.  Use which ever method you feel better with but
without middle support, the tanks will eventually fail.  If you decide not
to repair the forward part of the bilge, the tank will not have to be
removed.

By doing the repair in stages, you could repair everything but the forward
part in one repair and the forward part in another repair dividing a big
job into two separate procedures.

Even if you just removed the keel wood to the forward edge of the bilge
opening, you may have a successful repair but I'm sure getting all the wood
out would be a better solution, even if the final wood removal was delayed
for another day.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Tom Troncalli
The Renata, hull 95
St Pete, Fla 




> [Original Message]
> From: Les <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: 9/15/2007 3:43:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [C38] Keel Stub Wood Removal?
>
> On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 18:26 -0400, David L Ryan wrote:
> > I've been trying to further research this fix without too much  
> > success. Perhaps you all can help.
> > 
> > Is procedure recommended for all Catalina 38s, or is it only  
> > recommended when a boat exhibits symptoms?
> > 
> > If so, what are the symptoms? The "catalina smile"? Others?
> > 
> > Who has had the fix done to their boat? Has anyone done it  
> > themselves? Any advice or cautions? Did the procedure correct the  
> > problem?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > -David
> It seems to me that I have seen a conversation or article on this.  Did
> you check the website?  
> I seem to remember that someone said they had "hogged out the keel stub
> wood" and replaced it with all fiberglass.  As to the Catalina smile,
> that seems independent (unless you have a large gap instead of a crack)
> of the keel stub wood issue.  If the keel stub wood gets dry rotted,
> then the keel will begin to droop and you can certainly see that during
> the haul-out while the boat is in the slings, or at least I would expect
> that to be the case.  Remember that the keel on our boats weighs about 4
> tons, and is held up only by the bolts through the keel stub when the
> boat is in the slings.  However, the yard could probably advise you on
> this.  You can bet they won't want to do that job unless it is really
> necessary.  They have to pull the keel clear of the boat, cut out the
> fiberglass in the bottom of the bilge (including the nice little place
> even with the aft of the head bulkhead), then hog out the wood with
> something like an adz, then discuss with you the replacement options
> (more wood, metal, fiberglass, etc.) and the pros and cons of each then
> do the actual repair.  My guess would be a full week of work at a
> minimum, probably with two or three guys most of the time, several
> lifts, the issues with realignment of the keel studs and holes for them
> in the repaired area, re-mounting the keel and fiberglass, gel-coat,
> paint, and bottom paint.
>
> 	I just checked the messages I have archived and couldn't find any
> reference to this job.
>
> Regards,
> Les H
>
>
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