[C38] DEATH ROLE

Tue Jun 10 02:43:33 EDT 2008

Glen,
    Don't tell me you have done the Delta Ditch run in a C-38?  If  you 
have you are a far better man than me Magee. Joe Launie, Macavity Commodore

Glen Robinson wrote:
> Bobster,
> Congrats on your boat!  You will love it more, the more you sail.
> As always, Phil Gay is on the money, and I offer futher musings (with 
> the presumption that you are somewhat a novice.  If not, ignore, & 
> this may benefit others):
> The C-38 is a typical PHRF-type hull: wide in the middle, pinched at 
> the stern.  This configuration results in a very unstable condition 
> when _dead downwind_.  This is exacerbated by the fact that these are 
> not planing designs, so they only go 8-10, to maybe12, or so, knots 
> when surfing a wave.  Max.  Period.  (I know, I know:  Someone out 
> there has done--or heard reliable reports of--15, or 20, or more??). 
> In my own experience, (28 years of racing IOR types in SF Bay, Pacific 
> Offshore, and limited-water sailing areas in the San Joaquin Delta), 
> when we are going max speed for the conditions & the breeze tries to 
> push us faster, if we're DDW, the hull just digs a deeper hole in the 
> water, & the death rolls begin--where the chute oscillates side to 
> side, tilting the mast one way, then the other.  If not controlled, 
> this worsens, until--WE BROACH!  (Sometimes after only 1 or 2 
> oscillations).
> Hopefully, it's a _windward _broach, & we can dump the spinnaker 
> sheet, the main sheet AND THE VANG! (if timely, these steps may even 
> save from the broach) then pump the rudder to drive the bow back 
> downwind, crank it all in and do it again!  And Again! And Again! 
> (Multiple broaches are not recommended--for obvious reasons).
> The _leeward_ Broach _is to be avoided!_  Period!  The boom comes 
> across dangerously. Sails are backed, the boat has the wrong side 
> down, and often is pinned that way until after much corrective 
> action.  It's really slow, and can be damaging, as well as dangerous!
> My experience has shown the following to be effective, but ask around, 
> and if any of it makes sense to you, then try some, yourself.
> A) To prevent death rolls, if it's really puffing, _REDUCE SAIL_.
> These boats only go so fast, & if they hit max speed with a _polled 
> out 110_ in 25 knots, why fly the chute??  I have comfortably sailed 
> past many out-of-control, overpowered spinnaker boats this way 
> (occasionally, old age and experience prevails over youth and 
> testosterone).
> B) If it's marginal wind conditions & competition dictates the 
> spinnaker, _REACH UP_ a bit.  Sailing higher than DDW is MUCH more 
> stable--especially for an inexperienced helmsman.  Remember to drive 
> it down in the blasts (you already know _not_ to sail by the lee).
> C) Finally, if you _must _carry the chute DDW for whatever reason, to 
> minimize the death rolls you can do 2 things:
> 1) CHOKE IT DOWN!  Trim both spinnaker guys hard (or super-trim the 
> twings, as appropriate).  This a) pulls the corners down, b) depowers 
> the chute, and c) limits its side-to-side travel.  In addition, you can:
> 2) CHASE THE CHUTE!  The driver must watch the chute as it moves from 
> side-to-side, and simply drive _toward_ the chute.  With a little 
> practice and feel, the driver can anticipate the chute and even lead 
> it slightly, which actually can stop the oscillations.
> Remember, the C-38 has a lot of sail, and a long, thin rudder, which 
> is easily overpowered.  In extreme conditions, the helmsman (as well 
> as the crew) must be ahead of what's happening to be in control.
> Also, if loaded up for long periods, the rudder can cavitate, leading 
> to loss of steering control.  This can be minimized by aggressively 
> wiggling the helm from time to time to reduce the cavitation.
> Lastly--but perhaps most importantly:  The less experienced one's 
> crew, the more conservative one should sail.  I have sailed (J-35) 
> carrying a full spinnaker in 40 knots very fast!--and very safe!--with 
> a top crew; but have experienced over $20,000 damage (Cal 39) in less 
> than 25 knots with a green crew.  In the latter case, we also had 
> several minor injuries (Good luck, good anticipation and excellent 
> reaction by the few experienced crew prevented a far worse scenario).
> In offering these suggestions--gleaned from many hours with much 
> better sailors than I--I also recommend that you read all you can, 
> talk to as many as you can, _crew_ _with experienced sailors_, try a 
> few things, and decide for yourself.
> Again, Congratulations on your new love,
> Glen
> C-38 SNOWBIRD
> Lodi, CA
>  
>  
>  
> */Phil Gay <eyriepg at comcast.net>/* wrote:
>
>     My only experience with the death roll was when I was traveling
>     south in Saratoga Passage under engine.  I noticed a little wind
>     off the stern and wanted to try my recently acquired spinnaker.  I
>     didn't want to bother with the main and rigged lines for the
>     spinnaker.  I didn't notice that the wind had increased and there
>     were now white caps.  Soon after I hoisted the spinnaker, the boat
>     started rolling to port and then to starboard.  Each time it
>     rolled and started turning, it took more helm to correct it.  I
>     quickly got the spinnaker down and decided to never hoist the
>     spinnaker without a main to blanket the wind if the situation gets
>     out of hand.
>      
>     Phil Gay
>     C38 049 Que Linda
>     Everett, WA
>      
>     *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>     [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *bobster94
>     *Sent:* Saturday, June 07, 2008 5:01 PM
>     *To:* listserve at catalina38.org
>     *Subject:* [C38] DEATH ROLE
>      
>     I am new to the Cat 38 world. I am in love with this boat. She has
>     such classic lines, beautiful! However, I have heard tell she can
>     be a real handful downwind. Can someone educate me about the term,
>     "Death Role".
>     _______________________________________________
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