[C38] Rudder packing challenges

Mon Jun 12 15:09:37 EDT 2006

Don and all,

On Legacy, I don't think it's that the packing is wearing out, but rather
that the play in the shaft pushes the packing away from the shaft.  With
this, even new packing doesn't stop the leak for long.  In my opinion, the
packing gland on the rudder was just designed wrong.  It should be shaped in
such a way that it squeezes the packing towards the shaft, not just
flattening it.

I'm still intrigued by the idea of a gator.  I did some looking around and
put some stuff about it on my web page last year.  It's still there:
http://www.idea-asylum.com/rudder_seal/

The question I never answered to my satisfaction is whether or not a gator
can be designed that will allow the rudder shaft to turn far enough.  I do
have enough room below my quadrant for the gator and my quadrant has been
lowered to make room for a lever arm for the autopilot.

If I put a gator on my boat, I'd use a gasket under the gator flange that
had a hole that rubbed on the shaft so that in the event of a catastrophic
failure of the gator, the rubber gasket would restrict water flow.  Doing
this, I wonder what the effect would be of non-circulating, stale water held
in the gator and on the rudder shaft.

For now, I just take the leak as a sign that I'm going fast!

Rich, Legacy, #360

-----Original Message-----
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org]On Behalf Of Don Strong
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:09 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing challenges

Dear C38 Colleagues.
         Update my rudder packing efforts. As we discussed before and as
Russ has observed today, with wheel steering the rudder tube is cut open in
the middle for attaching the steering quadrant.  The bronze stuffing box is
on the top of the bottom part of tube that the rudder shaft passes through,
and the quadrant rides about 1/2 inch above the stuffing box. I do not
think that a gaitor will fit on a tube with steering quadrants; too little
room for attachment.  It is a huge job to remove the steering quadrant, but
you must do so before replacing the packing/ stuffing.
         I believe that I used 1/2 inch teflon coated synthetic stuffing
from West Marine (This kind lasts longer and cuts more accurately than the
natural old kind)  and was able to get three courses of it into the empty
box. I hammered the stuffing on a wooden block to flatten it before
insertion, this facilitates sliding the stuffing into the stuffing box. The
distortion caused by hammering disappears when you tighten the squeeze
bolts on the box.
         However, my rudder shaft has lots and lots of play, and it needs
shimming of at least 25 thousands of an inch on each side, as mesured in
the cockpit at the tube top where the rudder attachment is fixed.
         This play (I hope it is the play) means that even brand new
stuffing wears out in a few hours of use. So, my rudder shaft leaks as much
through the box as ever after only a few hours of use, with new
stuffing.  It may be that I need to replace the bottom bearing ( is it
delrin?) on the rudder, but that will have to wait till haul out. Im going
to try to shim the top of the tube in the next month or so and will inform
you all of my results.

Still tryin' Don

At 09:39 AM 6/12/2006, you wrote:
>I searched my own archives and found the emails related to rudder packing.
>I will look for some 1/2 inch packing and get that in there.
>As soon as I can get my stuff together, I will try to compose a write up of
>what I did.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Russ Duff
>Electrical Applications Engineer
>Climate Control
>
>RDUFF at VISTEON.COM
>
>Visteon Climate Control
>METVIS
>D-64
>45000 Helm Street
>Plymouth, MI  48170
>
>PHONE: 734-416-1511
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Charles Finn
>Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:49 AM
>To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing
>
>
>Russ,
>Didn't we discuss this a year or so ago?  I think Don talked about how
>he repacked his box and there was also some discussion about a "gaitor?" I
>can search my archives if that would help. BTW,  this would be a great set
>of instructions for the website if you
>would like to do so!
>Thanks,
>cf
>
>
>Duff, Russ (R.W.) wrote:
> > The discussion on the website is for getting the play out of the
> > rudder tube.  This wasn't my question.  Because I have wheel steering,
> > the rudder tube is cut open in the middle for attaching the steering
> > quadrant, and there is a brass stuffing box on the top of the bottom
> > tube that the rudder tube passes through.  This is where I need to
> > replace the stuffing.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Russ Duff
> > Catalina 38, Hull #112
> > "AVANTURA"
> > Lake Erie
> > Grosse Ile, Michigan
> > RDUFF AT VISTEON DOT COM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Charles Finn
> > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:29 AM
> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder packing
> >
> >
> > Russ,
> > There is a complete discussion (with sketches) for this repair on the
> > website.  Hope it helps.
> >
> > Charles Finn
> > Mighty Quinn #114
> >
> > Duff, Russ (R.W.) wrote:
> >
> >> What is used for packing in the rudder tube?  I had to drop the
> >> rudder to repair the floor, so I figured while it is apart, I might
> >> as well repack the rudder tube.  But, what do I use?
> >>
> >> BTW, the floor repair ended up being a bigger job than anticipated,
> >> but it is DONE!!!  I won't be afraid to reef on the wheel or pedestal
> >> guard any more (I could wobble it all over with just one hand
> >> before).  I will post some photos when I finally develop them all.
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> * Russ Duff *
> >> Catalina 38, Hull #112
> >> "AVANTURA"
> >> Lake Erie
> >> Grosse Ile, Michigan
> >> RDUFF */ AT /* VISTEON */ DOT /* COM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> --
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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