[C38] Listserve Digest, Vol 3, Issue 90

Alden Andre alden642 at comcast.net
Sat Aug 4 10:57:43 EDT 2007


Charles, I have a north sail asymmetric and use it for cruising and racing.
It has a sock. I use it by myself in light winds and heavy winds and I race
on the Columbia River  so driving space is critical and I find no problem
flying it by myself even in races. Attached are some photos.



Alden Andre
Vice Commadore 
Columbia River All Catalinal Association
C-38 FLYBYE
503-929-8814
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Spinnakers (John Erlandson)
   2. asym and sock (Don Strong)
   3. Re: Spinnakers, weight of cloth (Don Strong)
   4. Re: Spinnakers, weight of cloth (Rich West)
   5. Re: Spinnakers (Les)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:06:48 -0700
From: "John Erlandson" <jserlandson at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] Spinnakers
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <003701c7d622$f87137b0$c200a8c0 at amd2500>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I have a Quantum V-3 which is their all around spinnaker, with an ATN sock.
I was very surprised the first time I sailed it how easy to set sail and
douse with 2 or 3 people. I was also surprised at how far it would rotate to
windward, 8 to 10 feet past the head stay when the sheet was eased when
running deep of the wind. When I bought it they convinced me to go with .75
oz to maximize the light to moderate wind range. If I had gone with the 1.5
oz the sail would have a higher wind range but would collapse in light air
especially when going deep. I have used it in as little as 6 to 8 knots with
ease and as much as 18 knots. The boat was still easy to drive in the higher
winds and fast, I did 8.2 to 8.8 knots for 5 miles with a power boat size
wake behind me.
John Erlandson
Mal de Mer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles" <charles at finn.ws>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:21 PM
Subject: [C38] Spinnakers


> It is probably obvious from the number of emails from me today that I
> have out on the boat for some time and am full of ideas and questions:
>
> I currently have four symmetric spinnakers (.75 and 1.5 oz.)  that I
> seldom even carry as I cruise short handed or with folks with little
> sailing knowledge.  I am thinking of getting an asymmetric spinnaker
> with a sock.  I am very interested in the "pros and cons" of this before
> letting go of these four sails.  And, in terms of asymmetric, what is a
> good size and weight for cruising?
>
>
> Charles Finn
> Mighty Quinn, #114
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:54:36 -0800
From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: [C38] asym and sock
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <46B3F87C.1070308 at ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Charles: Asyms and sock are great. All pros, no cons for cruising. Now, 
if you have a crew of 4 gorillas on your foredeck, do use the 
symmetrical with pole!
regards, Don

Charles wrote:
> It is probably obvious from the number of emails from me today that I 
> have out on the boat for some time and am full of ideas and questions:
>
> I currently have four symmetric spinnakers (.75 and 1.5 oz.)  that I 
> seldom even carry as I cruise short handed or with folks with little 
> sailing knowledge.  I am thinking of getting an asymmetric spinnaker 
> with a sock.  I am very interested in the "pros and cons" of this before 
> letting go of these four sails.  And, in terms of asymmetric, what is a 
> good size and weight for cruising?
>
>
> Charles Finn
> Mighty Quinn, #114
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>   



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:32:15 -0800
From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: [C38] Spinnakers, weight of cloth
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <46B4014F.2000400 at ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Group:
    When we got our asym things were so east that Karin canceled her 
spinnaker moratorium. As I have written before, we have 1.5 oz asym, and 
the sail is so heavy and huge in its bag that i have to huff and puff to 
drag it onto the foredeck. Compared to my 0.75 oz syms--- which are so 
light and manageable--- I feel that 1.5 oz carries compromises. In SFB, 
we cruisers almost never have to worry about wind so light that an 0.75 
oz asym would fly when an 1.5 oz would not (racers will find times and 
places for as many sails as can fit in the hold and the wallet).
Don
Discreet Charm Catalina 38
Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay

John Erlandson wrote:
> I have a Quantum V-3 which is their all around spinnaker, with an ATN
sock.
> I was very surprised the first time I sailed it how easy to set sail and
> douse with 2 or 3 people. I was also surprised at how far it would rotate
to
> windward, 8 to 10 feet past the head stay when the sheet was eased when
> running deep of the wind. When I bought it they convinced me to go with
.75
> oz to maximize the light to moderate wind range. If I had gone with the
1.5
> oz the sail would have a higher wind range but would collapse in light air
> especially when going deep. I have used it in as little as 6 to 8 knots
with
> ease and as much as 18 knots. The boat was still easy to drive in the
higher
> winds and fast, I did 8.2 to 8.8 knots for 5 miles with a power boat size
> wake behind me.
> John Erlandson
> Mal de Mer
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles" <charles at finn.ws>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:21 PM
> Subject: [C38] Spinnakers
>
>
>   
>> It is probably obvious from the number of emails from me today that I
>> have out on the boat for some time and am full of ideas and questions:
>>
>> I currently have four symmetric spinnakers (.75 and 1.5 oz.)  that I
>> seldom even carry as I cruise short handed or with folks with little
>> sailing knowledge.  I am thinking of getting an asymmetric spinnaker
>> with a sock.  I am very interested in the "pros and cons" of this before
>> letting go of these four sails.  And, in terms of asymmetric, what is a
>> good size and weight for cruising?
>>
>>
>> Charles Finn
>> Mighty Quinn, #114
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>   
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 21:29:17 -0700
From: "Rich West" <rw at idea-asylum.com>
Subject: Re: [C38] Spinnakers, weight of cloth
To: "'Catalina 38 Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <006801c7d650$05536e30$0301a8c0 at ric>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi All,
 
Probably just because I don't know any better, I've been using a symmetrical
spinnaker with a sock and an ATN tacker attached to the roller furling
forestay.  It's worked great!  When our engine went out 5 days out of
Hawaii, we were able to sail at about 4 - 5 knots in 5 - 8 knots of wind.
It was like magic and it really saved us.  
 
If an asymmetrical is even easier, I'd sure love to have one.
 
Rich West
Legacy, #360

  _____  

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Don Strong
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:32 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Spinnakers, weight of cloth


Dear Group: 
    When we got our asym things were so east that Karin canceled her
spinnaker moratorium. As I have written before, we have 1.5 oz asym, and the
sail is so heavy and huge in its bag that i have to huff and puff to drag it
onto the foredeck. Compared to my 0.75 oz syms--- which are so light and
manageable--- I feel that 1.5 oz carries compromises. In SFB, we cruisers
almost never have to worry about wind so light that an 0.75 oz asym would
fly when an 1.5 oz would not (racers will find times and places for as many
sails as can fit in the hold and the wallet).
Don
Discreet Charm Catalina 38
Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay

John Erlandson wrote: 

I have a Quantum V-3 which is their all around spinnaker, with an ATN sock.

I was very surprised the first time I sailed it how easy to set sail and

douse with 2 or 3 people. I was also surprised at how far it would rotate to

windward, 8 to 10 feet past the head stay when the sheet was eased when

running deep of the wind. When I bought it they convinced me to go with .75

oz to maximize the light to moderate wind range. If I had gone with the 1.5

oz the sail would have a higher wind range but would collapse in light air

especially when going deep. I have used it in as little as 6 to 8 knots with

ease and as much as 18 knots. The boat was still easy to drive in the higher

winds and fast, I did 8.2 to 8.8 knots for 5 miles with a power boat size

wake behind me.

John Erlandson

Mal de Mer

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Charles"  <mailto:charles at finn.ws> <charles at finn.ws>

To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"  <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
<listserve at catalina38.org>

Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:21 PM

Subject: [C38] Spinnakers





  

It is probably obvious from the number of emails from me today that I

have out on the boat for some time and am full of ideas and questions:



I currently have four symmetric spinnakers (.75 and 1.5 oz.)  that I

seldom even carry as I cruise short handed or with folks with little

sailing knowledge.  I am thinking of getting an asymmetric spinnaker

with a sock.  I am very interested in the "pros and cons" of this before

letting go of these four sails.  And, in terms of asymmetric, what is a

good size and weight for cruising?





Charles Finn

Mighty Quinn, #114



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Listserve mailing list

Listserve at catalina38.org

http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

    





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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:32:59 -0700
From: Les <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] Spinnakers
To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <1186223579.4661.36.camel at localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi, Charles, 
	Nancy and I have an assymetrical on JACE.  I have rigged a down haul
using the anchor bearing, a light block on the foot of the spinnaker,
and use two sheets.  The rig was suggested by a friend of mine who sails
a  lot with a spinnaker.  Unfortunately when he and his wife offered to
teach us how to use the spinnaker, the wind was blowing about 15 knots
and puffs going to about 18.  Nancy wouldn't go on deck, so she had to
steer.  My friends wife coached her.  So there we were, flying a 27'x52'
assymetrical on a close run, and Nancy felt overpowered.  The turned
into the wind (like with a jib), but this just filled the spinnaker more
and we about rounded up big time.  She was scared silly, and we haven't
had the spinnaker up since.  Maybe later this year (I hope).  Anyway I
used snatch blocks on the toe rail, with 7/16" sta-set, and ran it to
the primaries.  We furled the jib first, then set the spinnaker.  It
worked like a charm, until it was time to take it down.  I had pulled
too hard on the line hauling the sock over it, and the sock had gotten
snagged in the block at the top.  It wouldn't come down over the
spinnaker.  We doused it by hand, a real test of manhood in that wind,
even after we got it in the shadow of the main.  

	What I learned:
1.  review the process thoroughly before leaving the dock.
2.  Check the gear carefully.  The sock was frayed around the hole for
the control line, and that had caused (or at least aggravated) the
problem.
3.  You need a better system for the turning blocks, but since you are
currently using a spinnaker I suspect you already have that sorted out.
4.  Furl the jib first.  Run off a bit and shadow the spinnaker with the
main.
5.  The sock is the also the tub portion of the turtle, and the cover
that goes over the hoop is actually the foot of the spinnaker.  We have
a real hard steel hoop in the sock.  This makes it a bit hard to handle,
because it is slightly larger than the companion way (it won't fit the
forward hatch at all. I think that newer spinnakers may have a better
solution, but I don't know.
To launch it:
1.  take the turtle cover off.
2.  attach the head to the halyard.
3. run the downhaul, 
4. run the sheets thru the turning blocks and back to the winches.
5. raise the spinnaker in the sock.
6. pull the sheet in a bit on the working side and let the other sheet
run around the outside of the headstay and keep just enough tension on
to keep it from trailing in the water.  
7. Once this is all sorted out, raise the sock stop as soon as it is
clear of the head.  Don't do what I did and keep pulling until it gets
stiff, because that will bunch the sock and likely snag it in the block.
Tie the control line off so you don't loose it.  I tied mine to the
shroud, but my friend suggested that I mount a small cleat on the mast
for it.
8.  trim it and you should be good to go.

To take it down:
1. turn downwind and put the spinnaker in the shadow of the main.
2.  ease the sheets
3.  use the control line and pull the sock down over the spinnaker.  On
mine it is a complete loop.  This is good, but I need some way to mark
which way to pull.  I  haven't figured this out yet.
3. If you will want to use it again, just leave it up and tie off the
lines near the mast, holding the spinnaker and sock near the mast.  This
is not for cruisers, because it will soon chafe through.  If cruising
take it down or make sure it won't chafe on the mast, radar, reflectors,
spreaders etc. etc.
4.  To lower it, just ease it down and stuff the thing into the turtle
skirt as you go.  
5.  coil and head the lines, stow them on top, unshackel the head and
put the cover on.

If the sock is snagged, just open the forward hatch, and stuff it
inside.  You can sort it out on deck when things are calm.  At least
that would be my suggestion.  But remember that hoop.  It will not go
inside my hatch.  This meant I had to finesse it diagonally and without
the trutle, it went inside. It took about an hour dockside all on the
boat to straighten it back out.  So it could be done underway, on a run
with the jib furled, by one person, using the halyard to pull the head
up as you worked the spinnaker into the sock.

What I would say is that it is a good sail if the helm knows what to do,
and the foredeck part is easy, especially without the pole, uphaul,
downhaul, fore and after guys.  If you use a pole to hold the clew, then
you would have to add the steps for rigging the pole.  One thought I had
was one of those devices with a retractable pole through a fitting on
the stem head, at least until I priced it.  Instead, I think one of
those bands around the head stay would be a much cheaper and reasonable
alternative (The Tacker (tm))

	Speed was very good with that much wind, and it held up well.  It is
just a lot of cloth to handle, and a gust would really make your life
busy on the foredeck.   I haven't looked up any tricks for handling it
yet.  This was to be the year, but other things.... You know...

Ours is 52x27 at the widest point, and 23 or so at the foot.

I think it is called a tri-radial cut. It was on the boat when we got
it.

Regards,
Les H
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 18:21 -0400, Charles wrote:
> It is probably obvious from the number of emails from me today that I 
> have out on the boat for some time and am full of ideas and questions:
> 
> I currently have four symmetric spinnakers (.75 and 1.5 oz.)  that I 
> seldom even carry as I cruise short handed or with folks with little 
> sailing knowledge.  I am thinking of getting an asymmetric spinnaker 
> with a sock.  I am very interested in the "pros and cons" of this before 
> letting go of these four sails.  And, in terms of asymmetric, what is a 
> good size and weight for cruising?
> 
> 
> Charles Finn
> Mighty Quinn, #114
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org




------------------------------

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http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org


End of Listserve Digest, Vol 3, Issue 90
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