[C38] Listserve Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327

TherORl at aol.com TherORl at aol.com
Sun Dec 14 15:45:52 EST 2008


 
I have a 2-blade prop on mine, I can back it out of the slip in either  
direction. Are you saying that the 3-blade is a better prop? The reason I ask is  
that the last time we had her out of the water, I was told that the 2-blade  
folding prop was the best for my particular boat.
 
Mike
Lucky Star
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/14/2008 11:21:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
listserve-request at catalina38.org writes:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re:  performance (Patrick Harpole)
2. Re: Listserve Digest, Vol 4,  Issue 326  (TherORl at aol.com)


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Message:  1
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:36:33 -0800
From: "Patrick Harpole"  <1derful at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To:  "'Catalina 38 Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID:  <ECAD1FF2594E4E318B08D93CB091B97C at Patrick>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

Joe,

Can't Ken do the  same thing with his present prop?  That is..a little
reverse to attain  steerage then neutral?   Does another prop do a better
job?   I am obviously a "Wuss" sailor and anything to get the job done ...I
have  fairly long mooring lines and let someone walk me out if the prop-walk
is  not to my advantage..sometimes it is.

Patrick

P.S.  To  determine  prop-walk put engine in reverse and look over the port
then  starboard side..which ever way the water's flowing your vessel's
turning  the other way.



_____  

From:  listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org]  On Behalf Of Joseph Launie
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:33  PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38]  performance



Ken,
I have a late model 38 with a  4 cylinder engine but solved the backing
problem. I put on a two bladed  Max-Prop. (I now wish I had gotten a 3 bladed
which costs more but does an  even better job providing power in rough seas
and  backing.It is a  matter of $$$.)
the 2 blade Max prop will be a huge improvement over what  you have. It is a
feathering prop so it is just as efficient backward as  forward. What I do is
put it in reverse, give it a little power to get the  boat moving and then
shift to neautral -as the boat coasts back I alternate  - a little reverse, a
little neautral. You can make it back out in a  perfectly straight line. The
downside is the max Prop (do not accept  substitutes) will cost a bit but it
is one of the best investments we ever  made. Because the max prop is
powerful in reverse you can use it to stop  the boat coming in. Make certain
that the pitch is set to the specs  recommended for your boat when it is
installed. Joe  Launie/Macavity

Ken wrote: 

I recently bought a '83 Catalina and  I am in the process of getting to know
the boat. It has the standard 21 hp  Universal and two blade prop. My big
problem is when I am trying to back  out of my slip the stern moves hard to
the port no mater which way I turn  the wheel. My slip is pretty tight length
and width wise.

Is there  some way I can get more power and control without getting a bigger
engine?  What's the best way to turn the helm when I back up in a tight area
to keep  the stern swinging to the left?

Ken 

Catalina 38 hull  #251







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Message:  2
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:21:14 EST
From: TherORl at aol.com
Subject:  Re: [C38] Listserve Digest, Vol 4, Issue 326
To:  listserve at catalina38.org
Message-ID:  <bcc.41638907.3676b6aa at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"


I've owned my Catalina 38 (Lucky Star) for about  three years now and  have 
just recently learned how to back out of my  slip without using hand lines  
and 
such. In my case, I have to back  out to port to get out of the marina. I  
turn 
the wheel all the way  to starboard then back off a little while giving it a  
goose in  reverse. Once it starts to move, straighten out your wheel and go 
very  
slowly out of the slip. (Remember this is all done very slow)

I've  got to the point now that I can back it into the slip with know   
problems.

Oh by the way. You have one of the most dependable motors  made if it's  
maintained properly.

Mike O'Reilly
Lucky Star  C-38



In a message dated 12/14/2008 9:00:25 A.M. Pacific  Standard Time,  
listserve-request at catalina38.org  writes:

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You can reach the person  managing the  list at
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When  replying,  please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's  Topics:

1. Re:  performance (david at dlrfilms.com)
2. Re:  performance   (Les)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:   1
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:07:04 -0800 (PST)
From:   david at dlrfilms.com
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To: "Catalina 38   Listserve"  <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID:
<f81a4b40dfd1940088cad499e0030668.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
Content-Type:   text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

> Is there some way I can get  more  power and control without getting a
> bigger
> engine?  What's the  best way to turn the helm when I back up in a tight
>  area
> to  keep the stern swinging to the left?


At the  risk of sounding  condescending, the engine you have is more  than
enough, and the C38 is a  wonderfully nimble boat. I've motored  out of
dockside danger in our C38  that would have entailed thousands  of dollars
of damage if I was in the 23'  fishboat my dad and I used  to bang around
in.

All this will be  reveeled to you as you get  to know your boat. In the mean
time go slow. You  don't have any  control unless you are moving, but that
big spade rudder  will kick in  with almost no motion, and the keel makes a
nearly perfect  pivot  point. Before long you'll be spinning the boat inside
it's own   length!







------------------------------

Message:   2
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:48:30 -0800
From: Les   <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] performance
To:  Catalina  38 Listserve  <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID:   <1229273310.3047.22.camel at localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type:   text/plain

You have already received several replies, but none   mentioned what
causes it except the term propwalk.  So, here is  the  physics course...
Water gets denser as it gets  deeper.   Our props are about 16-18" inches
in diameter(I just  don't remember the  right number)...  Thus the water
at the top  is about 
1#/sq inch  less dense than at the bottom, and the prop  covers about 3"
width, so there  is about 18 square inches driving at  each of the top and
bottom (only  thinking of the widest part at the  outer half of the
prop)... This  translates to about 18# of force  driving the boat away
from the rotation at  the bottom.  The prop  turns counter clockwise in
reverse, and so it  drives the boat to the  left (port).  The only thing
counteracting that  is the lift  across the rudder and keel.  In our boats
1Kn generates  about 20  lbs of lift on the rudder, so once the boat is
moving a bit over  1kn,  the rudder begins to take control, and by 1.3-1.5
knots the rudder   overcomes the propwalk, and you go where you steer.
That is why the   practice all of us use (reverse, throttle a bit,
throttle down,  neutral  wait a bit and repeat) works. The boat is massive
(8tons), so  the propwalk  takes time to accelerate the boat sideways, a
short  burst will produce some  back motion, and then neutral removes  the
propwalk, and the rudder has  control. three times usually works  for me.

There is a  neat book called Dockmanship which details  some other
techniques using  lines to control the boat both coming in  and going out.

A  neat exercise on a quiet day is to take the boat  to calm waters, and
use  the propwalk to turn the boat in its own  length. 

the  procedure:
stop the boat in a calm and out of the  way  area.  let it just float a
bit and feel the absence of  motion.   
Turn the wheel to port (left).  
Put  the  transmission into reverse, and goose it a bit on the   throttle.
but
don't let the boat move  backwards more than a  foot.
The boat will start to swing to  port.  Put the throttle in  neutral, 
quickly turn the  wheel to starboard, change to forward and  goose it.
When going forward, the  prop wash (water pushed by the  prop) hits the
rudder to help turn the  boat.  Goose the throttle  a bit and then before
the boat moves  forward, throttle to idle and  shift to reverse, swing the
wheel over to  port and goose it  again.  

Now the boat will be  swinging pretty well.   Take it easy.  It is easy
to get the boat  spinning wildly if you  do this too many times, and what
you want is to be  able to get about  a one minute swing for a full 360.
Practice this and you  will get a  good feel for the propwalk and a new
skill, that of being able  to  turn your boat around in its own length.  

Practice also getting  the boat to swing 90 degrees and 180 degrees  so
you learn how to stop  the swing (put the boat into forward with  the
rudder to  port).

Some really good folks can do this in the  opposite  direction only using
forward, with just enough reverse to keep the   boat from going forward.
I haven't mastered that one yet.

It is  worth while to note that the fin keel makes this possible.    A
full keel boat may be able to do the turn in the direction of   propwalk,
but not the other way due to the physical resistance of the  full  keel.

This ability will help in getting into and out  of  narrow slipways or
changing your approach in a narrow channel  as  well.  

Finally, slow crashes do less damage.    When docking or rafting try to
go at a very slow walk or waltz  speed.   Also NEVER let anyone try to
stop this big a boat by  pushing with their  legs against something.  They
can be badly  injured.  Remember  that 8tons is pushing and even slowly it
is  still 8  tons.

Regards,
Les H
On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 16:01  -0700, Ken  wrote:
> I recently bought a '83 Catalina and I am in  the process of  getting to
> know the boat. It has the standard 21  hp Universal and two  blade prop.
> My big problem is when I am  trying to back out of my slip  the stern
> moves hard to the port  no mater which way I turn the wheel.  My slip is
> pretty tight  length and width wise.
> Is there some  way I can get more power  and control without getting a
> bigger engine?  What's the best way  to turn the helm when I back up in
> a tight area to  keep the  stern swinging to the left?
>  Ken 
> Catalina 38   hull   #251





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