[C38] the goose keel (alden andre)

Thu Aug 20 14:50:11 EDT 2009

Who owns the goose and I am wondering how the keel mod has worked out?
Alden

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Water Heater Plumbing (david at dlrfilms.com)
   2. Re: Water Heater Plumbing (Tom T.)
   3. Re: Water Heater Plumbing (Tom T.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:30:29 -0700
From: david at dlrfilms.com
Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID:
	<23bee7e3df1527cd33966bd2adbe0c67.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

My engine appears to be a bit of a frankenstein's monster, and I'm not
sure if I have the butterfly valve, but I will be looking for it this
afternoon when I go though the below procedure! Also, for clarity, I
wan't
talking about the raw water impeller, but the impeller on the
recirculating pump. But having tried to open that up (it's glued shut
with
all manner of sealant) and much more inclined to try the below procedure
first! I bet you've diagnosed the problem.

Thanks so much!

OTOH, we've come to regard our engine as completely unreliable which has
made us very handy under sail. You should have seen us in and out of
Block
Island last week!

>  David,
>
> It does sound like your not getting all of the air out of the system.
> What you see by looking in after taking the cap off is the coolant
which
> should be a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water and is totally separate
> from the impeller.  Fill up the system with 50/50 and start it up let
it
> run and keep an eye on the level as the antifreeze begins to circulate
> the level will drop sometimes making a burp or slurping sound.   Keep
an
> eye on your temp. it will climb don't let it stay to long above 210,
> shut down the engine let it cool for a bit and start all over.   It
can
> take several times doing this until the coolant is  full.  This
doesn't
> mean that a bubble is not still in the system.  Put the cap on and
start
> up the engine, you should have a butterfly bleed valve forward and
> starboard of the radiator cap crack this open after the engine has
been
> running and it should vent lots of steam if there is a bubble inside.
> Close and wait then open this way you will get to a point that when
you
> open it only antifreeze comes out, when this happens you have bled the
> engine of the air.  With the water heater in a takes a lot longer
> especially if you have removed the hoses and drained it.   The last
time
> I did  this it took about 30-45 minutes.  This was after having
removed
> the water heater for another project.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
> david at dlrfilms.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:13 AM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
>
>
>> After years of chronic engine heating problems, I asked this C-38
>> forum for suggestions.
>
> I guess it's my turn.
>
> We had now heating problems when we bought the boat, but last Summer
> started to get overheat alarms.
>
> Simply cracking open the system to check this and that seemed to clear
> it, so I have (hopefully) deduced that it is an "air-lock" problem.
>
> But the overheats have gotten more frequent and are less reliably
> cleared by cracking open the system.
>
> Our most recent fix it to take the hot water heater out of the loop,
> which works, but I can still see the air-lock forming, but without the
> hot water heater in the system there seems to be enough circulation
> pressure to push past it.
>
> Because if the deteriorating nature of the problem I am wondering if
the
> freshwater impellor might be damaged, but when I start the engine with
> the cap off the coolant tank, I can see (what appears to be) vigorous
> flow.
>
> It also seems like maybe the cap, which is spring-loaded and leads off
> to the overflow tank might not be working right. When the air-lock
forms
> it pushes the coolant back down the tube, but my intuition is that
this
> should function more like an air-release valve. But I'm not an engine
> guy in any way, so not knowing what it's supposed to do, I don't know
> whether or not it's working right.
>
> I'm half hoping the whole thing will overheat and seize so I can put
in
> an electric drive.
>
> Help?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> 08/19/09 18:06:00
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:37:59 -0400
From: "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <380-220098420153759953 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hello,
You didn't say which engine you have but if you have the Universal 5424
24hp, it was equipped with a heat exchanger too small for the
application
and the mounts to the bell housing tend to fatigue crack and fail
eventually.

After you fill any properly installed cooling system, it should
naturally
"burp" any trapped air bubbles which is why you will need to add coolant
at
least once after you refill the system.  If any portion of the system is
too mounted too high, as in a heat exchanger mounted to the top of the
engine compartment or a hot water heater mounted in the sail locker, the
system may never burp properly.  The highest point should be the filler
neck on the exhaust manifold.

I upgraded my cooling system with an expansion tank like modern cars
have
so my system is "self burping."

There are many tricks to keep the Universal diesels cooler but the real
culprit in my opinion to the cooling problems of the early Universal
24hp
diesels is the heat exchanger.

Tom Troncalli

> [Original Message]
> From: <david at dlrfilms.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: 8/20/2009 10:13:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
>
>
> > After years of chronic engine heating problems, I asked this C-38
forum
> > for suggestions.
>
> I guess it's my turn.
>
> We had now heating problems when we bought the boat, but last Summer
> started to get overheat alarms.
>
> Simply cracking open the system to check this and that seemed to clear
it,
> so I have (hopefully) deduced that it is an "air-lock" problem.
>
> But the overheats have gotten more frequent and are less reliably
cleared
> by cracking open the system.
>
> Our most recent fix it to take the hot water heater out of the loop,
which
> works, but I can still see the air-lock forming, but without the hot
water
> heater in the system there seems to be enough circulation pressure to
push
> past it.
>
> Because if the deteriorating nature of the problem I am wondering if
the
> freshwater impellor might be damaged, but when I start the engine with
the
> cap off the coolant tank, I can see (what appears to be) vigorous
flow.
>
> It also seems like maybe the cap, which is spring-loaded and leads off
to
> the overflow tank might not be working right. When the air-lock forms
it
> pushes the coolant back down the tube, but my intuition is that this
> should function more like an air-release valve. But I'm not an engine
guy
> in any way, so not knowing what it's supposed to do, I don't know
whether
> or not it's working right.
>
> I'm half hoping the whole thing will overheat and seize so I can put
in an
> electric drive.
>
> Help?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:57:15 -0400
From: "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Message-ID: <380-220098420155715890 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

With all the conversation of the cooling system, I want to add one more
cooling tidbit from my own experience.

I took a trip in 2002 from Tampa Bay to Key West and back.  Before the
trip
we checked everything as well as we could and the engine fresh water
pump
felt good with no sign of leakage or slack in the bearing.  It felt like
a
new pump so I was not concerned about it.

500 miles later we were trying to go directly upwind in 40 mile winds
against breaking waves as we tried to enter through the Skyway bridge to
Tampa Bay at 3am in the morning and tired from the rough seas as we
tried
to make it to our marina.

We needed to use the motor to assist us in sailing double reefed to
windward through the bridge opening when the engine started to make
noise
and overheat.  We made it past the bridge so we could sail without the
engine and I went below to check on the engine.  The fresh water pump,
which had seemed like new, had failed and frozen up causing the v-belt
to
fail also.

We sailed up Tampa Bay to within a hundred yards of the dock and only
then
cranked the engine to assist in docking in the still heavy winds early
in
the morning with no one awake on the dock to assist us.

The reason for the pump failure was age, not wear.  The Universal pumps
use
sealed bearings and are not water lubricated like most automotive pumps.

This makes our pumps more expensive and more reliable UNTIL the grease
in
the unserviceable bearings gets old.  We don't put enough hours on our
pumps to wear them out so they get old from age as the grease in the
bearings hardens up.

I replaced the pump with a Kubota pump which is identical to the
Universal
pump except for the price.

If you are still running the original pump, be aware that it can fail
even
though it may appear to be perfect.

The pumps are supposedly not seviceable but if I had had the time when
my
pump failed, I think I would have at least tried to press the old pump
apart to see if I could find bearings to rebuild it with.  My boat is
several hundred miles from my home so I bought a new pump for expediency
instead of trying to repair the old pump.  Even the Kubota pump is very
expen$ive but a quick fix.

Tom Troncalli

> [Original Message]
> From: <david at dlrfilms.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: 8/20/2009 11:30:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
>
> My engine appears to be a bit of a frankenstein's monster, and I'm not
> sure if I have the butterfly valve, but I will be looking for it this
> afternoon when I go though the below procedure! Also, for clarity, I
wan't
> talking about the raw water impeller, but the impeller on the
> recirculating pump. But having tried to open that up (it's glued shut
with
> all manner of sealant) and much more inclined to try the below
procedure
> first! I bet you've diagnosed the problem.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> OTOH, we've come to regard our engine as completely unreliable which
has
> made us very handy under sail. You should have seen us in and out of
Block
> Island last week!
>
>
>
>
> >  David,
> >
> > It does sound like your not getting all of the air out of the
system.
> > What you see by looking in after taking the cap off is the coolant
which
> > should be a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water and is totally
separate
> > from the impeller.  Fill up the system with 50/50 and start it up
let it
> > run and keep an eye on the level as the antifreeze begins to
circulate
> > the level will drop sometimes making a burp or slurping sound.
Keep an
> > eye on your temp. it will climb don't let it stay to long above 210,
> > shut down the engine let it cool for a bit and start all over.   It
can
> > take several times doing this until the coolant is  full.  This
doesn't
> > mean that a bubble is not still in the system.  Put the cap on and
start
> > up the engine, you should have a butterfly bleed valve forward and
> > starboard of the radiator cap crack this open after the engine has
been
> > running and it should vent lots of steam if there is a bubble
inside.
> > Close and wait then open this way you will get to a point that when
you
> > open it only antifreeze comes out, when this happens you have bled
the
> > engine of the air.  With the water heater in a takes a lot longer
> > especially if you have removed the hoses and drained it.   The last
time
> > I did  this it took about 30-45 minutes.  This was after having
removed
> > the water heater for another project.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
> > david at dlrfilms.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:13 AM
> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > Subject: Re: [C38] Water Heater Plumbing
> >
> >
> >> After years of chronic engine heating problems, I asked this C-38
> >> forum for suggestions.
> >
> > I guess it's my turn.
> >
> > We had now heating problems when we bought the boat, but last Summer
> > started to get overheat alarms.
> >
> > Simply cracking open the system to check this and that seemed to
clear
> > it, so I have (hopefully) deduced that it is an "air-lock" problem.
> >
> > But the overheats have gotten more frequent and are less reliably
> > cleared by cracking open the system.
> >
> > Our most recent fix it to take the hot water heater out of the loop,
> > which works, but I can still see the air-lock forming, but without
the
> > hot water heater in the system there seems to be enough circulation
> > pressure to push past it.
> >
> > Because if the deteriorating nature of the problem I am wondering if
the
> > freshwater impellor might be damaged, but when I start the engine
with
> > the cap off the coolant tank, I can see (what appears to be)
vigorous
> > flow.
> >
> > It also seems like maybe the cap, which is spring-loaded and leads
off
> > to the overflow tank might not be working right. When the air-lock
forms
> > it pushes the coolant back down the tube, but my intuition is that
this
> > should function more like an air-release valve. But I'm not an
engine
> > guy in any way, so not knowing what it's supposed to do, I don't
know
> > whether or not it's working right.
> >
> > I'm half hoping the whole thing will overheat and seize so I can put
in
> > an electric drive.
> >
> > Help?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2314 - Release Date:
> > 08/19/09 18:06:00
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org

------------------------------

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