[C38] Alternator and charging

Max Soto maxsoto at gmail.com
Wed Jul 8 10:34:22 EDT 2009


That was my next question!!! Why to the starter first???
Steve, With your new Blue Seas system you can run it directly to the switch
or the battery bank. There is no need for this wire to go to the starter. In
fact, you should run it to the bank that usually needs more charging. In my
case the house bank. The starter battery will work for a short period of
time, and after a few minutes it will be totally charged again, and the ACR
will just stop combining the banks.
If it goes to the starter battery first, it will be charged soon but always
have current run through it and the ACR (no matter how charged it is)  in
order to charge the house bank, which will usually will be requiring  power.

Just a thought,jaja!!!!

Regards,

Max

2009/7/8 Craig Steinkraus <Navion at charter.net>

>  Maybe after I get to the boat and look at the wiring, it will be
> apparent, but as I sit here the question I have is why run the alt. output
> to the starter first?
>
>
> Craig Steinkraus
> "Wings"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
> Max I do run it from the alternator to the starter, and then from the
> starter to the battery switch.
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Max Soto
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 AM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>
>
> HI Steve,
> Now it makes sense. I thought you run the wire from the alt directly to the
> starter, and I was thinking how you were using the new switch, but if you
> have it directly hooked up to a battery bank it should be working great.
> I have almost the same setup but the alt wire runs directly to the house
> bank. I was going to use the same ACR, but since I have different battery
> technologies I went for the echo charge(just 15 amps, but enough for a
> starting battery)..
> I agree with you that the charging system has never worked as good as with
> this setup.
>
> Max
>
>
>  2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>
>> Max,
>>
>> ACR stands for Automatic Charging Relay,  it combines the two banks during
>> charging and isolates during discharge.   Mine is hooked up so that when the
>> engine starts it goes to the start bank first and then after 30 seconds
>> connects the two banks so the voltage equalizes and then charges both.
>> http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386
>>
>>
>> On the bluse sea switch
>> http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6011_web_version.pdf  it
>> isolates the two banks except when you need to combine for emergencies.
>> Rather than choices for which bank to use the old 1, 2 or 1&2 it only has on
>> and combine.  In the on position both banks are providing power one to house
>> one to start but are never combined unless you choose the combine option.
>>  To charge all you do is select on and start the engine.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> <http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max Soto
>> Sent: Mon 7/6/2009 5:14 PM
>>  To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>> Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>>
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Just a couple of questions:
>>
>> What's that ACR is this some kind of isolator or charging relay???
>> I have this switch on Estancia, but in my case the current from the
>> alternator runs directly to the house battery bank, and a Xantrex Echo
>> Charger tranfers current from this bank to the starting battery.
>>
>> How do you charge the second battery bank??? You have to use the Blue Seas
>> switch on "emergency start" to charge both banks at the same time??
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>>
>>
>>        Conclusion for everyone on this item,  I took Tom's advice and what
>> a difference in the system.  I ended up having the alternator and starter
>> tested and rebuilt ($125) new brushes, regulator and contacts.  When hooking
>> it back up I ran current from the alternator directly to the starter then on
>> to the battery switch.  The wires that use to lead the current up to the
>> ampmeter and then back to the starter (red and orange #10) one was
>> abandonded and the other powers the new voltmeter with an inline fuse.   I
>> also replaced the battery switch with Blue Seas newer switch that completly
>> isolates the house and start banks with the exception of emergency combine,
>> just one choice on or off for normal operation, no more 1, 2 or 1&2 to
>> confuse the admiral.  It also turns out that the problem most likely was an
>> incorrectly installed ACR,  there are two important small wires that allow
>> the ACR to sense both banks.  Even though the ACR wiring was probably the
>> culprit it is a nice feeling after tearing things apart to realize that all
>> that current from the alternator is no longer going through two undersized
>> wires and a suspect wire harness but instead is being carried by a battery
>> cable to the batteries.
>>
>>        Steve
>>        Peregrine #312
>>        Seattle
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>        From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Tom T.
>>        Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 3:27 PM
>>        To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>>        Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        Hello Steve,
>>
>>        You are correct.  The 30 amp fuse in your charging circuit is too
>> small to carry the load if the batteries are discharged or you are running
>> other high load applications.  I expect they may be using a small fuse to
>> try to reduce the maximum load on the wiring harness which has been a
>> problem in the past.
>>
>>        To carry a high amperage load to your engine control panel is not
>> only a lot of electrical loss but it can be dangerous if your harness
>> connections are corroded.  There have been many original engine control
>> harnesses burned up because of the high load on the amp meter wires in that
>> harness.
>>
>>        The amp meter isn't needed anyway.  You can have an amp meter
>> showing a lot of amps but if your battery bank is shorted, you will only be
>> creating heat on the harness and load on your engine but a shorted battery
>> will never charge with the amp meter giving you a false sense of security.
>> A volt meter gives a better idea of your charging and battery conditions.
>>
>>        A more practical solution to the amp meter is to replace the
>> original amp meter with a marine grade volt meter.  To do this, you run the
>> output of the alternator directly to your battery banks and use the original
>> wires to the amp meter to feed a new volt meter.  You can run the feed to
>> the volt meter from the positive side of the starter solenoid since it is
>> very close to the alternator making a very easy conversion.
>>
>>        The volt meter conversion is a very good and highly recommended
>> upgrade.  It will make your boat safer and your alternator will perform
>> better because more output will go to the battery bank instead of wasted in
>> heat loss in the harness and possible faulty connectors.
>>
>>        Fuse the wire that you run from the solenoid to the new volt meter.
>>  There will be very little current on that wire now so even a small fuse
>> like 5 amps will do fine.  The fuse should be very close to the alternator
>> for safety.
>>
>>        It has been a long time since I made this modification on my boat
>> but I believe the harness wire used for the volt meter conversion is an
>> orange wire.  I wrote an article for Mainsheet several years ago about this
>> conversion but I don't remember what year or month it was but I'm sure I can
>> find a draft copy in my archives if you need it, just let me know and I'll
>> look for it.
>>
>>        Good luck,
>>
>>        Tom Troncalli
>>        Renata (Hull #95)
>>
>>                ----- Original Message -----
>>                From: Steve Smolinske <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>> >
>>                To: Catalina 38 Listserve <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org
>> >
>>                Sent: 6/29/2009 4:35:25 PM
>>                Subject: [C38] Alternator and charging
>>
>>
>>                Tom T, I'm hoping you can add some insight on this.   I
>> suspected my system wasn't charging so I took the alternator and starter off
>> and had them both tested, they are fine, and since there off I took the
>> precaution to have the regulator, brushes and contacts replaced.  Going over
>> the wiring diagram for the M30 They call out #10 wire with a 30 amp fuse
>> inline from the amp meter to the Starter Solenoid.  Knowing that a regulator
>> varies charge based on battery condition/charge and rpm isn't a 30 amp fuse
>> undersized, and why a fuse anyway, shouldn't the wire be sized correctly to
>> handle the highest load the system would see.
>>
>>
>>                Steve Smolinske
>>                President
>>
>>                4M Company, Inc.
>>                15660 Nelson Place South
>>                Seattle, WA  98188
>>                425-227-4500
>>                www.rainierrubber.com <http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
>>
>>
>>                The information contained in this email may be confidential
>> and/or proprietary in nature and is intended for the recipient of the email
>> only.  Please treat all information contained in this and any communication
>> with the 4M Company as such.  Thank you.
>>
>>                P Before printing, think about ENVIRONMENTAL responsibility
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>
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-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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