[C38] Alternator and charging

Steve Smolinske SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
Wed Jul 8 11:18:59 EDT 2009


less wire run, rather than alternator to battery switch then back to the
alternator you go half the distance, this means less voltage drop and
current loss

________________________________

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Craig Steinkraus
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 6:00 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging


Maybe after I get to the boat and look at the wiring, it will be
apparent, but as I sit here the question I have is why run the alt.
output to the starter first?
 
 
Craig Steinkraus
"Wings"
 
----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Steve Smolinske <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>  
	To: Catalina 38 Listserve <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>  
	Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:52 PM
	Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging

	Max I do run it from the alternator to the starter, and then
from the starter to the battery switch.  

________________________________

	From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
	Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 AM
	To: Catalina 38 Listserve
	Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
	
	

	HI Steve, 

	Now it makes sense. I thought you run the wire from the alt
directly to the starter, and I was thinking how you were using the new
switch, but if you have it directly hooked up to a battery bank it
should be working great.
	I have almost the same setup but the alt wire runs directly to
the house bank. I was going to use the same ACR, but since I have
different battery technologies I went for the echo charge(just 15 amps,
but enough for a starting battery)..
	I agree with you that the charging system has never worked as
good as with this setup.

	Max


	2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
	

		Max,
		
		ACR stands for Automatic Charging Relay,  it combines
the two banks during charging and isolates during discharge.   Mine is
hooked up so that when the engine starts it goes to the start bank first
and then after 30 seconds connects the two banks so the voltage
equalizes and then charges both.
http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386
		
		
		On the bluse sea switch
http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6011_web_version.pdf  it
isolates the two banks except when you need to combine for emergencies.
Rather than choices for which bank to use the old 1, 2 or 1&2 it only
has on and combine.  In the on position both banks are providing power
one to house one to start but are never combined unless you choose the
combine option.  To charge all you do is select on and start the engine.
		
		Steve
		
		
		<http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386>
		
		________________________________
		
		From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Max
Soto
		Sent: Mon 7/6/2009 5:14 PM
		
		To: Catalina 38 Listserve
		Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
		
		
		Hi Steve,
		
		Just a couple of questions:
		
		What's that ACR is this some kind of isolator or
charging relay???
		I have this switch on Estancia, but in my case the
current from the alternator runs directly to the house battery bank, and
a Xantrex Echo Charger tranfers current from this bank to the starting
battery.
		
		How do you charge the second battery bank??? You have to
use the Blue Seas switch on "emergency start" to charge both banks at
the same time??
		
		Regards,
		
		Max
		
		
		
		2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
		
		
		       Conclusion for everyone on this item,  I took
Tom's advice and what a difference in the system.  I ended up having the
alternator and starter tested and rebuilt ($125) new brushes, regulator
and contacts.  When hooking it back up I ran current from the alternator
directly to the starter then on to the battery switch.  The wires that
use to lead the current up to the ampmeter and then back to the starter
(red and orange #10) one was abandonded and the other powers the new
voltmeter with an inline fuse.   I also replaced the battery switch with
Blue Seas newer switch that completly isolates the house and start banks
with the exception of emergency combine, just one choice on or off for
normal operation, no more 1, 2 or 1&2 to confuse the admiral.  It also
turns out that the problem most likely was an incorrectly installed ACR,
there are two important small wires that allow the ACR to sense both
banks.  Even though the ACR wiring was probably the culprit it is a nice
feeling after tearing things apart to realize that all that current from
the alternator is no longer going through two undersized wires and a
suspect wire harness but instead is being carried by a battery cable to
the batteries.
		
		       Steve
		       Peregrine #312
		       Seattle
		
		________________________________
		
		       From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf
of Tom T.
		       Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 3:27 PM
		       To: Catalina 38 Listserve
		       Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
		
		
		
		
		       Hello Steve,
		
		       You are correct.  The 30 amp fuse in your
charging circuit is too small to carry the load if the batteries are
discharged or you are running other high load applications.  I expect
they may be using a small fuse to try to reduce the maximum load on the
wiring harness which has been a problem in the past.
		
		       To carry a high amperage load to your engine
control panel is not only a lot of electrical loss but it can be
dangerous if your harness connections are corroded.  There have been
many original engine control harnesses burned up because of the high
load on the amp meter wires in that harness.
		
		       The amp meter isn't needed anyway.  You can have
an amp meter showing a lot of amps but if your battery bank is shorted,
you will only be creating heat on the harness and load on your engine
but a shorted battery will never charge with the amp meter giving you a
false sense of security.   A volt meter gives a better idea of your
charging and battery conditions.
		
		       A more practical solution to the amp meter is to
replace the original amp meter with a marine grade volt meter.  To do
this, you run the output of the alternator directly to your battery
banks and use the original wires to the amp meter to feed a new volt
meter.  You can run the feed to the volt meter from the positive side of
the starter solenoid since it is very close to the alternator making a
very easy conversion.
		
		       The volt meter conversion is a very good and
highly recommended upgrade.  It will make your boat safer and your
alternator will perform better because more output will go to the
battery bank instead of wasted in heat loss in the harness and possible
faulty connectors.
		
		       Fuse the wire that you run from the solenoid to
the new volt meter.  There will be very little current on that wire now
so even a small fuse like 5 amps will do fine.  The fuse should be very
close to the alternator for safety.
		
		       It has been a long time since I made this
modification on my boat but I believe the harness wire used for the volt
meter conversion is an orange wire.  I wrote an article for Mainsheet
several years ago about this conversion but I don't remember what year
or month it was but I'm sure I can find a draft copy in my archives if
you need it, just let me know and I'll look for it.
		
		       Good luck,
		
		       Tom Troncalli
		       Renata (Hull #95)
		
		               ----- Original Message -----
		
		               From: Steve Smolinske
<mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
		               To: Catalina 38 Listserve
<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
		               Sent: 6/29/2009 4:35:25 PM
		               Subject: [C38] Alternator and charging
		
		
		               Tom T, I'm hoping you can add some
insight on this.   I suspected my system wasn't charging so I took the
alternator and starter off and had them both tested, they are fine, and
since there off I took the precaution to have the regulator, brushes and
contacts replaced.  Going over the wiring diagram for the M30 They call
out #10 wire with a 30 amp fuse inline from the amp meter to the Starter
Solenoid.  Knowing that a regulator varies charge based on battery
condition/charge and rpm isn't a 30 amp fuse undersized, and why a fuse
anyway, shouldn't the wire be sized correctly to handle the highest load
the system would see.
		
		
		               Steve Smolinske
		               President
		
		               4M Company, Inc.
		               15660 Nelson Place South
		               Seattle, WA  98188
		               425-227-4500
		
		               www.rainierrubber.com
<http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
		


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	-- 
	Max Soto
	C38 #198 ESTANCIA
	Puntarenas, Costa Rica
	

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