[C38] NEED HELP!! Diagnosing: Oil leaking into coolant

[littlebreeze at comcast.net]

Jon 

I had the same problem years ago when I was repairing a 390 Ford engine. After surfacing the heads we got really smart and put on reusable head gaskets. The reusable head gaskets were an embossed steel instead of a composite steel material. Within hours of running the motor we had oil in the water. Seems the pressure in the oil passage to the head was more than the untreated gasket could hold. After talking to some of the machinists at a local speed shop and suffering the embarrassment of making the confession of using the steel gasket, they asked what kind of sealant I had used? What sealant I asked? Normal head gaskets are self sealing, I learned that these were not. Fixed it. We were running 11:1 compression on the engine. I was amazed that the cylinders never leaked, but that the oil passage did. So your seal at the oil passage might not be far off. Too bad it is so much work to fix. 

Kerry Grimes 
Little Breeze, 139 
San Francisco, CA 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jonathan Whitney" <jonwhit23 at aol.com> 
To: listserve at catalina38.org 
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2010 8:32:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [C38] NEED HELP!! Diagnosing: Oil leaking into coolant 


I'm having a serious issue that has been stumping several mechanics that maybe people experienced with the Universal 5424/M30 would be familiar with. 

Problem: 
Engine oil moving rapidly into freshwater coolant system. When running engine, within one minute, emulsified oil and water are overflowing from top of header tank. And within five minutes of running entire 5 quarts of oil can be emptied into coolant system. Small amounts of emulsified oil fall back into oil crankcase, however the overwhelming majority of the flow is from the oil side to the coolant side. 

Background: 
Engine is Universal 5424, original 1979, no hour meter so unsure of hours. Purchased boat 6 months ago. 
Was having problem starting after a water in fuel contamination issue. Middle injector had tip of nozzle blown off (tip physically gone after inspection). Had all three injectors looked at and rebuilt. Once new injectors were in and entire fuel system overhauled, still not starting. After removing air intake manifold, eventually got to start, but discovered it was only firing off 2 cylinders (middle cylinder where blown tip occured was not firing). Feared an issue in the cylinder head - so removed the head and brought to a head specialist to have tested. Pressure tests showed that valve seats in middle and aft cylinder were not sitting right. Got a valve job and entire cylinder head reworked. Got head back, installed new head gasket ordered from Torreson (matches old head gasket). Installed new head gasket (in proper orientation) and re-conditioned cylinder head. Torqued to spec (56 lb/ft in order indicated in service manual) reinstalled rocker assembly, air intake manifold, exhaust manifold, etc. Readjusted the valve timing to spec (.007 inch on intake valves, and .009 inch on exhaust valves). Installed valve cover, new injectors, etc. 

Started engine, and it fired right up (that problem fixed), but within a minute had emulsified oil/water flowing from top of header tank. Initially thought could have been oil from removing cylinder head, so flushed coolant system with little bit of soap and water till water cleared. Drained all oil, flushed oil system with gallon of diesel, drained all diesel, replaced oil filter. Filled with new oil to upper level on dipstick (approximatly 4.5 quarts). Started engine again, and within one minute have more emulsified oil/water from coolant system. And tried to continue flushing with freshwater thinking that this oil/water was not flushed out. Ran five minutes, gray frothy emulsified oil still not stopping. Shut down. Checked oil level (dipstick showed no oil). Tried to pump out oil and nothing in the oil pan --> indicating nearly 5 quarts of oil was pumped into freshwater coolant system in under five minutes. 

Initial potential diagnosis from my mechanic (whom has been involved in all these major steps) and several other diesel specialists now involved. 
(1) blown head gasket --> head gasket is still intact and in proper orientation 
(2) cylinder head cracked --> although it was fresh from a trusted specialist -- this is still a possibility and its going back to him to be retested. However, this is seeming unlikely as the speed to which the oil goes into coolant, a crack in the head or the gasket not sitting right wouldn't permit that amount of flow even under high oil pressure. 
(3) first thing everyone says is "there must be a problem with the oil cooler". As far as I know, there is no oil cooler on this engine, and there doesn't appear to be any external oil cooler added at some point. An oil cooler is not mentioned in the description of the oil lubrication system in the service manual, or under any part list published for this engine. From what I can tell - it doesn't have one. However, I'd love for someone else who has this engine to tell me 100% it doesn't. Or if there is one...where the hell is it? 
(4) oil seal in the raw water pump are leaking. This could explain why oil would be disappearing, but not how it gets into the freshwater system, unless the raw water pump and the heat exchanger failed. So I replaced the seals on the raw water pump, just to be sure. And pressure tested the heat exchanger and there are no leaks. Also, when engine was running the raw water exhaust was clean and oil free. So this was temporarily eliminated as a suspect. 
(5) the o-ring on the pin plug might need to be replaced along with the head gasket. Speaking with a Universal specialist this morning, and looking through the schematics. There is one small pipe pin in the FWD port side corner of the cylinder head that appears to be an oil passage. There is a small blue o-ring fitted around it. He says that might need to be replaced when you replace the head gasket. There is an old o-ring there, but it is highly compressed. I dont know if this would make a space big enough for the flow described, but I suppose its possible, and right now the only lead I have. That pin plug is located right next to a space for the coolant system and so could be a potential weak point. 

I am trying to locate a detailed schematic of the oil lubrication system, more detailed than the general diagram in my service manual. So that we can find all the potential locations where pressurized oil interfaces closely with the coolant system. If anyone might have had or heard of a similar issue with this engine, any information would help us - as we are all sort of baffled. 

Because this issue started immediatly after removing/replacing the head it appears most likely connected, however I cant get a good explanation for how such fast transfer of oil into coolant could be possible - and what the most likely culprit would be. Less likely, but still a possibility, would be an independent problem occured in the block, coincidentally at the same time as removing the head. 

This is turning into somewhat of a nightmare - and would be extraordinarily grateful for any help from all you who have been working on this engines for any insight. Unfortunately, we were supposed to be leaving 2 weeks ago for a month cruise around the Hawaiian islands for my masters research. So we're trying to get it figured out asap to salvage whats left of the trip. Any ideas/comments/advice would be a godsend. 

Thanks in advance. And would be happy to answer any and all questions. Feel free to call me too, if you have an idea (215-485-2484). I'm on Hawaii time, but you can call anytime 24/7 (really, wake me up in the middle of the night, I'm desperate for help). 

Best, 
Jon Whitney 
"Eyewhitness" 
1979, Catalina 38 Hull #54 
Honolulu, Hawaii 



Jonathan Whitney 
Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology 
Zoology Dept., University of Hawaii at Manoa 
2538 McCarthy Mall, Edmondson 152 
Honolulu, HI 96822 
Phone: (215) 485-2484 
Email: jw2 at hawaii.edu 
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