[C38] Rudder Drop Woes

Max Soto maxsoto at gmail.com
Tue Apr 5 16:31:32 EDT 2011


On the attached pic from a 1984 C38, I counted nine bolts holding the two
pieces together...
Make a zoom on the pic and you'll see them with numbers..
Hope this helps..

Regards,

Max Soto

2011/4/5 Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>

> David,
>
> Send pics just to see if there are any differences between other boats
> quadrant...
> Don't you have two more bolts? One on each edge holding the pieces
> together??
> The C38 quadrant is made by Edson, so they can also help!
>
> Regards,
>
> Max
>
> 2011/4/5 <david at dlrfilms.com>
>
>> Well I have to admit this has me confused.
>>
>> As far as I can see, there are only four bolts holding each side of the
>> quadrant around the rudder-shaft, plus a big drift that pierces both
>> pieces and goes through the shaft as well.
>>
>> I called Catalina tech department yesterday and he said there weren't any
>> other bolts. Just the four (two on each side of the shaft clampiout theng
>> the two
>>
>> pieces of the assembly around the shaft.)
>>
>> I don't see any other bolts holding the the two pieces together, but just
>> because I don't see them doesn't mean their not there, right?
>>
>> Oy.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >  Hey David,
>> >
>> > Dont cut the quadrant off the rudder just yet!  I just went through a
>> > multiple day epic trying to remove the steering quadrant so I could pull
>> > the rudder after we had a run-in with a whale a few weeks ago.  Believe
>> it
>> > or not, we got nudged by female humpback while rounding the SE corner of
>> > Oahu during a circumnavigation of the island.  She hit us broadside and
>> > clipped the bottom of the rudder, bending the bottom about 6" to the
>> > starboard side.  The whale was fine (prop not on) and she barely skimmed
>> > the bottom of the rudder).  The boat won't turn right at all, but she
>> > turned left enough to get us home safely and spend the night out sailing
>> > on that Tsunami day a few weeks ago.
>> >
>> > So to pull the rudder out (while in the water), I had to remove the
>> > steering assembly, and those 5 bolts holding the quadrant to the rudder
>> > post were an incredible pain to break free.  I eventually had to borrow
>> an
>> > 3/8"-drive impact gun and large compressor from a mechanic friend.
>> > Although the gun eventually did break them free, it still took the
>> > combination blow torch, PB blaster, and cranking on each bolt with the
>> gun
>> > for about 40 minutes each to break them free. It was amazing how stuck
>> > they were in there (and how much space you dont have working down
>> there!).
>> >  There are also the two little machine head screws (with nuts) that hold
>> > the edges of the two quadrants together (the ones Steve had mentioned),
>> > that I hadn't noticed at first and discovered when I couldn't pry the
>> two
>> > freed-halves apart.
>> >
>> > After finally getting the steering assembly off, and removing the
>> > stainless cap that the rudder attaches to in the helm (which came off
>> > almost without the need for a wrench), I could see that the rudder post
>> is
>> > in fact hollow (sides are about 1/4" thick) and inside is filled with
>> > foam.  Because the rudder post was bent, the rudder did not come out
>> very
>> > easily.  I had to pound on it with a rubber mallet (for about 20
>> minutes)
>> > pour in penetrating oil, while my buddy turned the rudder manually in
>> the
>> > water.  After it was unseized, we pulled the rudder post out of the
>> bottom
>> > of the boat and did the best we could to control the rudders ascent.
>>  Once
>> > the rudder post is all the way out, it becomes very evident that its
>> > positively bouyant, and how tricky it is to control even with two bodies
>> > holding it.
>> >
>> > After it was out of the water, we could assess the damage.  The rudder
>> > post was bent about 3" off center over the 32" it sticks out (not too
>> bad)
>> > and the fiberglass around the upper portion of the post as cracked.  I
>> > took it to a local metal fabrication shop in Honolulu, and they
>> > straightened it back out no problem using a 120,000lb press (took about
>> 40
>> > minutes and $80).  Next is taking it to a glass-guy who can patch the
>> > crack and resurface the fiberglass.  Paint it and pop it back in.
>> >
>> > Jon Whitney
>> > "Eye Whitness"
>> > 1979, Hull 54
>> > Honolulu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: listserve-request at catalina38.org
>> > To: listserve at catalina38.org
>> > Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:28 pm
>> > Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229
>> >
>> >
>> > Send Listserve mailing list submissions to
>> >     listserve at catalina38.org
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >     listserve-request at catalina38.org
>> >
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>> >     listserve-owner at catalina38.org
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> >    1. Rudder Drop Woes (david at dlrfilms.com)
>> >    2. Re: crossing oceans (Larry Malmberg)
>> >    3. Re: Rudder Drop Woes (Steve Smolinske)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:32:53 -0700
>> > From: david at dlrfilms.com
>> > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> > Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
>> > Message-ID:
>> >     <ad3f56dfaf3f1474f58727e97a5b5cab.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>> >
>> > Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have
>> happened
>> > except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel off
>> > the damn rudder post!
>> >
>> > Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
>> > backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
>> > budge.
>> >
>> > We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical advantage
>> > and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the tiller.
>> >
>> > I am *discouraged*.
>> >
>> > Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
>> > grinder?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:57:43 -0700
>> > From: Larry Malmberg <larrypi at live.com>
>> > To: "'Rod and Patti Headlee'" <ja38 at earthlink.net>, "'Catalina 38
>> >     Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>> > Message-ID: <SNT128-DS190051AE1114A7DC35A5C1CEA30 at phx.gbl>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > Rod, how did the  Katadyn 40e work for you???
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Larry Malmberg
>> >
>> > Larry Malmberg Investigations
>> > 7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
>> > Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
>> > Telephone  909-208-1847
>> > FAX           909-991-7568
>> >
>> > E Mail  Larrypi at live.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Civil and Criminal, Surveillance, Internal Investigations.
>> > ?
>> > Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
>> truly,
>> > Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..
>> > ?
>> > "The American Indians found out what happens when? you don't control
>> > immigration"
>> >
>> >
>> > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>> safely
>> > in
>> > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
>> > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW-- What
>> a
>> > Ride!"
>> >
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message, including any
>> > attachments,
>> > is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
>> > confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
>> copying,
>> > use, disclosure or distribution of any parts of the contents of this
>> > message/information is prohibited by federal law. Attempts to intercept
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>> > message are in violation of Title 18 USC 2511(1) of the Electronic
>> > Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), which subjects the interceptor to
>> > fines,
>> > imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>> > please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
>> > original message.
>> > ?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>> > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Rod and Patti
>> > Headlee
>> > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 4:17 PM
>> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>> > Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> > I guess no one told us not to cross an ocean in the C-38. They are a bit
>> > wet
>> > at the helm seat but we were tiller steered with a monitor windvane. I
>> > could
>> > steer from the forward end of the cockpit and not get wet. We had JA in
>> > several gales before my wetaher forecasting got better and she did us
>> fine
>> > in 50 kt winds and 25 foot seas. One night we turned into the wind and
>> > forereached under doulble reefed main and the next night we let her run
>> > and
>> > surf the waves with the monitor steering.
>> >
>> > We added a 40 gal fuel tank behind the engine so we carried 60 gal
>> diesel
>> > total, we used 26 gal charging batteries on a 26 day run to Hiva Oa from
>> > Mazatlan. We had also installed an extra 18 gal water tank under the
>> > starboard setee and we carried 48 gal + 18 more in jerry jugs in the
>> > quarter
>> > berth. We also installed a Katadyn 40e, Air X, wind gen and a 55 watt
>> > solar
>> > panel. We had a Avon 4 man life raft, a Achilles dinghy and a ditch bag
>> > stuffed in the quarter berth too. She was well overloaded and still
>> sailed
>> > well.  We never got stern popped, we had several waves land in the
>> > mainsail
>> > pocket so we got a loose footed mainsail built for her. The cockpit
>> drains
>> > are fine for offshore, a bit of wayer creeps in if you are motoring in a
>> > large stern swell. We filled the T of the cockpit with jerry jugs for
>> > stove
>> > fule, diesel and gas for the dinghy. The run from Boar Bora to Am Samoa
>> > was
>> > 35 kts 11-15 foot seas and the C-38 loved it.
>> >
>> > rod
>> >
>> >
>> >  -----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>> >>Sent: Apr 3, 2011 4:20 AM
>> >>To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> >>Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>> >>
>> >>John:
>> >>   a tyro is a beginner. Someone who knows only the rudiments. I'm no
>> >>expert. My feeling that C38's aren't a good choice for crossing oceans
>> >>is the advice of the surveyor who did my boat at purchase. The C38
>> >>features that to his mind said "choose another boat if you want to
>> >>cross oceans" were the lack of stern buoyancy ---part and parcel of an
>> >>IOR
>> >>boat--- combined with the poor cockpit drainage, combined with the huge
>> >>passageway allowing water from pooping into the cockpit. The second two
>> >>can be fixed. But, as I said, I'm no expert. What do others feel about
>> > this?
>> >>Don
>> >>
>> >>On 4/2/11 7:20 PM, John Felkins wrote:
>> >>> Sorry, but what's a "tyro?" Also, why don't you think the C38 is a
>> good
>> > passage maker?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:00 AM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Send Listserve mailing list submissions to
>> >>>>     listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>>>     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>>>     listserve-request at catalina38.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>>>     listserve-owner at catalina38.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >>>> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Today's Topics:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    1. Different builds? (John Felkins)
>> >>>>    2. Re: Different builds? (Harry Powell)
>> >>>>    3. Re: Different builds? (Don Strong)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Message: 1
>> >>>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:28:56 -0500
>> >>>> From: John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
>> >>>> To: "listserve at catalina38.org"<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> >>>> Subject: [C38] Different builds?
>> >>>> Message-ID:<057FF911-B3CA-44E8-BBB6-78A0D2C62B73 at gmail.com>
>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
>> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
>> boat
>> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
>> Now
>> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Smooth sailing,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> John
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Message: 2
>> >>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:38:26 +0000 (GMT)
>> >>>> From: Harry Powell<harrypowell at mac.com>
>> >>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> >>>> Cc: jrfelkins at gmail.com
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>> >>>> Message-ID:<acc74510-842a-4f24-ab9d-cd641fdac383 at me.com>
>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My 1984 is just about the perfect year, also for sale in San Diego at
>> > the moment.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kidding aside, when I was looking I looked at the systems; electrical
>> > for upgraded wiring and clean runs, etc. And electroics; original?
>> > working?
>> > Also engine especially routine maintenance and exhaust system. The boats
>> > are
>> > very similar from year to year and the later years have a few "upgrades"
>> > but
>> > are quite simply not as old and have seen less wear and tear.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Look at inventory as sails are expensive. Check the engine log as
>> > rebuilds are expensive.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers!?
>> >>>> Harry?
>> >>>> Sum Fun,hull #258
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Apr 01, 2011, at 11:28 AM, John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
>> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
>> boat
>> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
>> Now
>> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Smooth sailing,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> John
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Listserve mailing list
>> >>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> >>>> scrubbed...
>> >>>> URL:<http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attach
>> >>>> ments/20110402/148f51b6/attachment-0001.html>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Message: 3
>> >>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 08:44:33 -0700
>> >>>> From: Don Strong<drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>> >>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>> >>>> Message-ID:<4D974461.9090405 at ucdavis.edu>
>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear John:
>> >>>>       Discreet Charm is C38 number 50 built in 1980. We all love the
>> >>>> way our boats sail, the large interior of C38s, and the superior
>> >>>> craftsmanship. So I will tell you what I don't like about them.
>> >>>> Common to all IOR boats is the pinched stern, which means no space
>> >>>> aft. The C36 does not have a pinched stern. I also dislike the very
>> >>>> restricted space in the engine room. To be able to view amply and
>> >>>> work around the engine of a sailboat is a real plus that the C38
>> >>>> doesn't have.  Finally, the early boats like mine have small fuel
>> >>>> tanks, 20 gals, and replacement with a larger fuel tank is a lot of
>> >>>> work
>> > and expense.
>> >>>>      These are the only minuses that I have encountered in 8 years
>> >>>> of ownership. I will say that if I had the choice to repurchase my
>> >>>> boat I would. I would not buy a C36 because I think they look like
>> >>>> pigs, and appearance is a big part of the hedonic pleasure one takes
>> > from a yacht.
>> >>>> I wouldn't buy an Erickson to get the great engine access because
>> >>>> they don't sail nearly as well as a C38. The fuel limitation can be
>> >>>> worked around, it isn't a problem unless you were to want to cross
>> >>>> oceans. I don't think the C38 is a great ocean crossing boat, but
>> >>>> I'm pretty much a tyro about ocean crossing.
>> >>>>      I'll bet others have different opinions. I look forward to the
>> >>>> other responses to your question.
>> >>>>      Regards, Don
>> >>>>
>> >>>> PS. Renovation and refitting is really expensive. Buy a boat that
>> >>>> has recently been renovated and refitted.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 4/1/11 11:28 AM, John Felkins wrote:
>> >>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
>> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
>> boat
>> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
>> Now
>> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Smooth sailing,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> John
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Listserve mailing list
>> >>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Donald R. Strong
>> >>>> C38 Discreet Charm
>> >>>> Emerycove, San Francisco Bay
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Listserve mailing list
>> >>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 224
>> >>>> *****************************************
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Listserve mailing list
>> >>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Donald R. Strong
>> >>Professor
>> >>Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
>> >>University of California, Davis 95616
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Listserve mailing list
>> >>Listserve at catalina38.org
>> >>http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Listserve mailing list
>> > Listserve at catalina38.org
>> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:26:31 -0700
>> > From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>> > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
>> > Message-ID: <392501BCC93AAC4EA94D28D8DB1599226928C7 at sockeye.4M.local>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > David,
>> >
>> > Just dropped mine and had a similiar problem with one of the four bolts
>> > clamping
>> > the unit to the post.  We ended up using socket extensions to get the
>> > wrench so
>> > that a second person could put a pipe on it from within the quarter
>> berth.
>> >  I
>> > layed in place and held the socket on the head of the bolt and supported
>> > the
>> > extensions so that the other crew member could reef on the damn thing.
>>  It
>> > took
>> > a whole lot of grunting and groaning.
>> >
>> > Aluminium heats and expands faster than the stainless bolt, you might
>> try
>> > heating and then applying more WD40 or PB Blaster and waiting a few
>> hours.
>> >  tap
>> > the head of the bolt after heating and spraying the WD to allow the WD40
>> > to
>> > penetrate into the threads  Im assuming you also removed the two smaller
>> > bolts
>> > at the outer edge of the wheel in addition to the four large ones in the
>> > center.
>> >
>> >
>> > When you get it out let me know what your post looks like, I thought
>> they
>> > were
>> > solid posts, I was surprised to find that ours looked to be about
>> Schedule
>> > 40
>> > pipe.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> > #312 Peregrine
>> > Seattle
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of david at dlrfilms.com
>> > Sent: Sun 4/3/2011 6:32 PM
>> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>> > Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have
>> happened
>> > except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel off
>> > the damn rudder post!
>> >
>> > Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
>> > backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
>> > budge.
>> >
>> > We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical advantage
>> > and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the tiller.
>> >
>> > I am *discouraged*.
>> >
>> > Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
>> > grinder?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Listserve mailing list
>> > Listserve at catalina38.org
>> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Listserve mailing list
>> > Listserve at catalina38.org
>> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >
>> >
>> > End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229
>> > *****************************************
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Listserve mailing list
>> > Listserve at catalina38.org
>> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>



-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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