[C38] Rudder Drop Woes

Wed Apr 6 11:19:24 EDT 2011

Max, 5 and 6 are the tensioning bolts for the wire cable and do not go
through both halves

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 1:32 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve; david at dlrfilms.com
Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes

On the attached pic from a 1984 C38, I counted nine bolts holding the
two pieces together...

Make a zoom on the pic and you'll see them with numbers..

Hope this helps..

Regards,

Max Soto 

2011/4/5 Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>

David,

Send pics just to see if there are any differences between other boats
quadrant...

Don't you have two more bolts? One on each edge holding the pieces
together??

The C38 quadrant is made by Edson, so they can also help!

Regards,

Max

2011/4/5 <david at dlrfilms.com>

Well I have to admit this has me confused.

As far as I can see, there are only four bolts holding each side of the
quadrant around the rudder-shaft, plus a big drift that pierces both
pieces and goes through the shaft as well.

I called Catalina tech department yesterday and he said there weren't
any

other bolts. Just the four (two on each side of the shaft clampiout
theng the two

pieces of the assembly around the shaft.)

I don't see any other bolts holding the the two pieces together, but
just
because I don't see them doesn't mean their not there, right?

Oy.

>
>  Hey David,
>
> Dont cut the quadrant off the rudder just yet!  I just went through a
> multiple day epic trying to remove the steering quadrant so I could
pull
> the rudder after we had a run-in with a whale a few weeks ago.
Believe it
> or not, we got nudged by female humpback while rounding the SE corner
of
> Oahu during a circumnavigation of the island.  She hit us broadside
and
> clipped the bottom of the rudder, bending the bottom about 6" to the
> starboard side.  The whale was fine (prop not on) and she barely
skimmed
> the bottom of the rudder).  The boat won't turn right at all, but she
> turned left enough to get us home safely and spend the night out
sailing
> on that Tsunami day a few weeks ago.
>
> So to pull the rudder out (while in the water), I had to remove the
> steering assembly, and those 5 bolts holding the quadrant to the
rudder
> post were an incredible pain to break free.  I eventually had to
borrow an
> 3/8"-drive impact gun and large compressor from a mechanic friend.
> Although the gun eventually did break them free, it still took the
> combination blow torch, PB blaster, and cranking on each bolt with the
gun
> for about 40 minutes each to break them free. It was amazing how stuck
> they were in there (and how much space you dont have working down
there!).
>  There are also the two little machine head screws (with nuts) that
hold
> the edges of the two quadrants together (the ones Steve had
mentioned),
> that I hadn't noticed at first and discovered when I couldn't pry the
two
> freed-halves apart.
>
> After finally getting the steering assembly off, and removing the
> stainless cap that the rudder attaches to in the helm (which came off
> almost without the need for a wrench), I could see that the rudder
post is
> in fact hollow (sides are about 1/4" thick) and inside is filled with
> foam.  Because the rudder post was bent, the rudder did not come out
very
> easily.  I had to pound on it with a rubber mallet (for about 20
minutes)
> pour in penetrating oil, while my buddy turned the rudder manually in
the
> water.  After it was unseized, we pulled the rudder post out of the
bottom
> of the boat and did the best we could to control the rudders ascent.
Once
> the rudder post is all the way out, it becomes very evident that its
> positively bouyant, and how tricky it is to control even with two
bodies
> holding it.
>
> After it was out of the water, we could assess the damage.  The rudder
> post was bent about 3" off center over the 32" it sticks out (not too
bad)
> and the fiberglass around the upper portion of the post as cracked.  I
> took it to a local metal fabrication shop in Honolulu, and they
> straightened it back out no problem using a 120,000lb press (took
about 40
> minutes and $80).  Next is taking it to a glass-guy who can patch the
> crack and resurface the fiberglass.  Paint it and pop it back in.
>
> Jon Whitney
> "Eye Whitness"
> 1979, Hull 54
> Honolulu
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listserve-request at catalina38.org
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:28 pm
> Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229
>
>
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Rudder Drop Woes (david at dlrfilms.com)
>    2. Re: crossing oceans (Larry Malmberg)
>    3. Re: Rudder Drop Woes (Steve Smolinske)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:32:53 -0700
> From: david at dlrfilms.com
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> Message-ID:
>     <ad3f56dfaf3f1474f58727e97a5b5cab.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have
happened
> except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel
off
> the damn rudder post!
>
> Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
> backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
> budge.
>
> We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical
advantage
> and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the
tiller.
>
> I am *discouraged*.
>
> Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
> grinder?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:57:43 -0700
> From: Larry Malmberg <larrypi at live.com>
> To: "'Rod and Patti Headlee'" <ja38 at earthlink.net>, "'Catalina 38
>     Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
> Message-ID: <SNT128-DS190051AE1114A7DC35A5C1CEA30 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Rod, how did the  Katadyn 40e work for you???
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Larry Malmberg
>
> Larry Malmberg Investigations
> 7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
> Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
> Telephone  909-208-1847
> FAX           909-991-7568
>
> E Mail  Larrypi at live.com
>
>
>
> Civil and Criminal, Surveillance, Internal Investigations.
> ?
> Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly,
> Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..
> ?
> "The American Indians found out what happens when? you don't control
> immigration"
>
>
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely
> in
> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW--
What a
> Ride!"
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Rod and Patti
> Headlee
> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 4:17 PM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>
> Hi All,
> I guess no one told us not to cross an ocean in the C-38. They are a
bit
> wet
> at the helm seat but we were tiller steered with a monitor windvane. I
> could
> steer from the forward end of the cockpit and not get wet. We had JA
in
> several gales before my wetaher forecasting got better and she did us
fine
> in 50 kt winds and 25 foot seas. One night we turned into the wind and
> forereached under doulble reefed main and the next night we let her
run
> and
> surf the waves with the monitor steering.
>
> We added a 40 gal fuel tank behind the engine so we carried 60 gal
diesel
> total, we used 26 gal charging batteries on a 26 day run to Hiva Oa
from
> Mazatlan. We had also installed an extra 18 gal water tank under the
> starboard setee and we carried 48 gal + 18 more in jerry jugs in the
> quarter
> berth. We also installed a Katadyn 40e, Air X, wind gen and a 55 watt
> solar
> panel. We had a Avon 4 man life raft, a Achilles dinghy and a ditch
bag
> stuffed in the quarter berth too. She was well overloaded and still
sailed
> well.  We never got stern popped, we had several waves land in the
> mainsail
> pocket so we got a loose footed mainsail built for her. The cockpit
drains
> are fine for offshore, a bit of wayer creeps in if you are motoring in
a
> large stern swell. We filled the T of the cockpit with jerry jugs for
> stove
> fule, diesel and gas for the dinghy. The run from Boar Bora to Am
Samoa
> was
> 35 kts 11-15 foot seas and the C-38 loved it.
>
> rod
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>>From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>>Sent: Apr 3, 2011 4:20 AM
>>To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
>>Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
>>
>>John:
>>   a tyro is a beginner. Someone who knows only the rudiments. I'm no
>>expert. My feeling that C38's aren't a good choice for crossing oceans
>>is the advice of the surveyor who did my boat at purchase. The C38
>>features that to his mind said "choose another boat if you want to
>>cross oceans" were the lack of stern buoyancy ---part and parcel of an
>>IOR
>>boat--- combined with the poor cockpit drainage, combined with the
huge
>>passageway allowing water from pooping into the cockpit. The second
two
>>can be fixed. But, as I said, I'm no expert. What do others feel about
> this?
>>Don
>>
>>On 4/2/11 7:20 PM, John Felkins wrote:
>>> Sorry, but what's a "tyro?" Also, why don't you think the C38 is a
good
> passage maker?
>>>
>>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:00 AM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> Send Listserve mailing list submissions to
>>>>     listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>     listserve-request at catalina38.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>     listserve-owner at catalina38.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Different builds? (John Felkins)
>>>>    2. Re: Different builds? (Harry Powell)
>>>>    3. Re: Different builds? (Don Strong)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:28:56 -0500
>>>> From: John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "listserve at catalina38.org"<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>> Subject: [C38] Different builds?
>>>> Message-ID:<057FF911-B3CA-44E8-BBB6-78A0D2C62B73 at gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
> years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
boat
> for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
Now
> I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>>
>>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:38:26 +0000 (GMT)
>>>> From: Harry Powell<harrypowell at mac.com>
>>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>> Cc: jrfelkins at gmail.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>>>> Message-ID:<acc74510-842a-4f24-ab9d-cd641fdac383 at me.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>>>
>>>> My 1984 is just about the perfect year, also for sale in San Diego
at
> the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Kidding aside, when I was looking I looked at the systems;
electrical
> for upgraded wiring and clean runs, etc. And electroics; original?
> working?
> Also engine especially routine maintenance and exhaust system. The
boats
> are
> very similar from year to year and the later years have a few
"upgrades"
> but
> are quite simply not as old and have seen less wear and tear.
>>>>
>>>> Look at inventory as sails are expensive. Check the engine log as
> rebuilds are expensive.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!?
>>>> Harry?
>>>> Sum Fun,hull #258
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 01, 2011, at 11:28 AM, John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
> years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
boat
> for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
Now
> I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>>
>>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Listserve mailing list
>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 08:44:33 -0700
>>>> From: Don Strong<drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
>>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
>>>> Message-ID:<4D974461.9090405 at ucdavis.edu>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Dear John:
>>>>       Discreet Charm is C38 number 50 built in 1980. We all love
the
>>>> way our boats sail, the large interior of C38s, and the superior
>>>> craftsmanship. So I will tell you what I don't like about them.
>>>> Common to all IOR boats is the pinched stern, which means no space
>>>> aft. The C36 does not have a pinched stern. I also dislike the very
>>>> restricted space in the engine room. To be able to view amply and
>>>> work around the engine of a sailboat is a real plus that the C38
>>>> doesn't have.  Finally, the early boats like mine have small fuel
>>>> tanks, 20 gals, and replacement with a larger fuel tank is a lot of
>>>> work
> and expense.
>>>>      These are the only minuses that I have encountered in 8 years
>>>> of ownership. I will say that if I had the choice to repurchase my
>>>> boat I would. I would not buy a C36 because I think they look like
>>>> pigs, and appearance is a big part of the hedonic pleasure one
takes
> from a yacht.
>>>> I wouldn't buy an Erickson to get the great engine access because
>>>> they don't sail nearly as well as a C38. The fuel limitation can be
>>>> worked around, it isn't a problem unless you were to want to cross
>>>> oceans. I don't think the C38 is a great ocean crossing boat, but
>>>> I'm pretty much a tyro about ocean crossing.
>>>>      I'll bet others have different opinions. I look forward to the
>>>> other responses to your question.
>>>>      Regards, Don
>>>>
>>>> PS. Renovation and refitting is really expensive. Buy a boat that
>>>> has recently been renovated and refitted.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/1/11 11:28 AM, John Felkins wrote:
>>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there
are
> years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the
boat
> for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation.
Now
> I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
>>>>>
>>>>> Smooth sailing,
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Listserve mailing list
>>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>> --
>>>> Donald R. Strong
>>>> C38 Discreet Charm
>>>> Emerycove, San Francisco Bay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Listserve mailing list
>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 224
>>>> *****************************************
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing list
>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>--
>>Donald R. Strong
>>Professor
>>Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
>>University of California, Davis 95616
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Listserve mailing list
>>Listserve at catalina38.org
>>http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:26:31 -0700
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> Message-ID: <392501BCC93AAC4EA94D28D8DB1599226928C7 at sockeye.4M.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> David,
>
> Just dropped mine and had a similiar problem with one of the four
bolts
> clamping
> the unit to the post.  We ended up using socket extensions to get the
> wrench so
> that a second person could put a pipe on it from within the quarter
berth.
>  I
> layed in place and held the socket on the head of the bolt and
supported
> the
> extensions so that the other crew member could reef on the damn thing.
It
> took
> a whole lot of grunting and groaning.
>
> Aluminium heats and expands faster than the stainless bolt, you might
try
> heating and then applying more WD40 or PB Blaster and waiting a few
hours.
>  tap
> the head of the bolt after heating and spraying the WD to allow the
WD40
> to
> penetrate into the threads  Im assuming you also removed the two
smaller
> bolts
> at the outer edge of the wheel in addition to the four large ones in
the
> center.
>
>
> When you get it out let me know what your post looks like, I thought
they
> were
> solid posts, I was surprised to find that ours looked to be about
Schedule
> 40
> pipe.
>
> Steve
> #312 Peregrine
> Seattle
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of david at dlrfilms.com
> Sent: Sun 4/3/2011 6:32 PM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
>
>
>
> Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have
happened
> except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel
off
> the damn rudder post!
>
> Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
> backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
> budge.
>
> We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical
advantage
> and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the
tiller.
>
> I am *discouraged*.
>
> Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
> grinder?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>
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>
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>
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> *****************************************
>
>
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_______________________________________________
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-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

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