[C38] Rudder Drop Woes

Wed Apr 6 11:27:48 EDT 2011

Ok, I thought they did!

Sent from my iPod

On Apr 6, 2011, at 9:19, "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:

> Max, 5 and 6 are the tensioning bolts for the wire cable and do not go through both halves
> 
>  
> 
> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max Soto
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 1:32 PM
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve; david at dlrfilms.com
> Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> 
>  
> 
> On the attached pic from a 1984 C38, I counted nine bolts holding the two pieces together...
> 
> Make a zoom on the pic and you'll see them with numbers..
> 
> Hope this helps..
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Max Soto 
> 
> 2011/4/5 Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>
> 
> David,
> 
>  
> 
> Send pics just to see if there are any differences between other boats quadrant...
> 
> Don't you have two more bolts? One on each edge holding the pieces together??
> 
> The C38 quadrant is made by Edson, so they can also help!
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Max
> 
> 2011/4/5 <david at dlrfilms.com>
> 
> Well I have to admit this has me confused.
> 
> As far as I can see, there are only four bolts holding each side of the
> quadrant around the rudder-shaft, plus a big drift that pierces both
> pieces and goes through the shaft as well.
> 
> I called Catalina tech department yesterday and he said there weren't any
> 
> other bolts. Just the four (two on each side of the shaft clampiout theng the two
> 
> 
> pieces of the assembly around the shaft.)
> 
> I don't see any other bolts holding the the two pieces together, but just
> because I don't see them doesn't mean their not there, right?
> 
> Oy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >  Hey David,
> >
> > Dont cut the quadrant off the rudder just yet!  I just went through a
> > multiple day epic trying to remove the steering quadrant so I could pull
> > the rudder after we had a run-in with a whale a few weeks ago.  Believe it
> > or not, we got nudged by female humpback while rounding the SE corner of
> > Oahu during a circumnavigation of the island.  She hit us broadside and
> > clipped the bottom of the rudder, bending the bottom about 6" to the
> > starboard side.  The whale was fine (prop not on) and she barely skimmed
> > the bottom of the rudder).  The boat won't turn right at all, but she
> > turned left enough to get us home safely and spend the night out sailing
> > on that Tsunami day a few weeks ago.
> >
> > So to pull the rudder out (while in the water), I had to remove the
> > steering assembly, and those 5 bolts holding the quadrant to the rudder
> > post were an incredible pain to break free.  I eventually had to borrow an
> > 3/8"-drive impact gun and large compressor from a mechanic friend.
> > Although the gun eventually did break them free, it still took the
> > combination blow torch, PB blaster, and cranking on each bolt with the gun
> > for about 40 minutes each to break them free. It was amazing how stuck
> > they were in there (and how much space you dont have working down there!).
> >  There are also the two little machine head screws (with nuts) that hold
> > the edges of the two quadrants together (the ones Steve had mentioned),
> > that I hadn't noticed at first and discovered when I couldn't pry the two
> > freed-halves apart.
> >
> > After finally getting the steering assembly off, and removing the
> > stainless cap that the rudder attaches to in the helm (which came off
> > almost without the need for a wrench), I could see that the rudder post is
> > in fact hollow (sides are about 1/4" thick) and inside is filled with
> > foam.  Because the rudder post was bent, the rudder did not come out very
> > easily.  I had to pound on it with a rubber mallet (for about 20 minutes)
> > pour in penetrating oil, while my buddy turned the rudder manually in the
> > water.  After it was unseized, we pulled the rudder post out of the bottom
> > of the boat and did the best we could to control the rudders ascent.  Once
> > the rudder post is all the way out, it becomes very evident that its
> > positively bouyant, and how tricky it is to control even with two bodies
> > holding it.
> >
> > After it was out of the water, we could assess the damage.  The rudder
> > post was bent about 3" off center over the 32" it sticks out (not too bad)
> > and the fiberglass around the upper portion of the post as cracked.  I
> > took it to a local metal fabrication shop in Honolulu, and they
> > straightened it back out no problem using a 120,000lb press (took about 40
> > minutes and $80).  Next is taking it to a glass-guy who can patch the
> > crack and resurface the fiberglass.  Paint it and pop it back in.
> >
> > Jon Whitney
> > "Eye Whitness"
> > 1979, Hull 54
> > Honolulu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: listserve-request at catalina38.org
> > To: listserve at catalina38.org
> > Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:28 pm
> > Subject: Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229
> >
> >
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> >
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> > than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Rudder Drop Woes (david at dlrfilms.com)
> >    2. Re: crossing oceans (Larry Malmberg)
> >    3. Re: Rudder Drop Woes (Steve Smolinske)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:32:53 -0700
> > From: david at dlrfilms.com
> > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> > Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> > Message-ID:
> >     <ad3f56dfaf3f1474f58727e97a5b5cab.squirrel at webmail.dlrfilms.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have happened
> > except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel off
> > the damn rudder post!
> >
> > Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
> > backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
> > budge.
> >
> > We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical advantage
> > and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the tiller.
> >
> > I am *discouraged*.
> >
> > Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
> > grinder?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:57:43 -0700
> > From: Larry Malmberg <larrypi at live.com>
> > To: "'Rod and Patti Headlee'" <ja38 at earthlink.net>, "'Catalina 38
> >     Listserve'" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> > Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
> > Message-ID: <SNT128-DS190051AE1114A7DC35A5C1CEA30 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Rod, how did the  Katadyn 40e work for you???
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Larry Malmberg
> >
> > Larry Malmberg Investigations
> > 7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
> > Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
> > Telephone  909-208-1847
> > FAX           909-991-7568
> >
> > E Mail  Larrypi at live.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Civil and Criminal, Surveillance, Internal Investigations.
> > ?
> > Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly,
> > Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile..
> > ?
> > "The American Indians found out what happens when? you don't control
> > immigration"
> >
> >
> > "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
> > in
> > a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> > thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW-- What a
> > Ride!"
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message, including any
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> > ?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Rod and Patti
> > Headlee
> > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 4:17 PM
> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I guess no one told us not to cross an ocean in the C-38. They are a bit
> > wet
> > at the helm seat but we were tiller steered with a monitor windvane. I
> > could
> > steer from the forward end of the cockpit and not get wet. We had JA in
> > several gales before my wetaher forecasting got better and she did us fine
> > in 50 kt winds and 25 foot seas. One night we turned into the wind and
> > forereached under doulble reefed main and the next night we let her run
> > and
> > surf the waves with the monitor steering.
> >
> > We added a 40 gal fuel tank behind the engine so we carried 60 gal diesel
> > total, we used 26 gal charging batteries on a 26 day run to Hiva Oa from
> > Mazatlan. We had also installed an extra 18 gal water tank under the
> > starboard setee and we carried 48 gal + 18 more in jerry jugs in the
> > quarter
> > berth. We also installed a Katadyn 40e, Air X, wind gen and a 55 watt
> > solar
> > panel. We had a Avon 4 man life raft, a Achilles dinghy and a ditch bag
> > stuffed in the quarter berth too. She was well overloaded and still sailed
> > well.  We never got stern popped, we had several waves land in the
> > mainsail
> > pocket so we got a loose footed mainsail built for her. The cockpit drains
> > are fine for offshore, a bit of wayer creeps in if you are motoring in a
> > large stern swell. We filled the T of the cockpit with jerry jugs for
> > stove
> > fule, diesel and gas for the dinghy. The run from Boar Bora to Am Samoa
> > was
> > 35 kts 11-15 foot seas and the C-38 loved it.
> >
> > rod
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
> >>Sent: Apr 3, 2011 4:20 AM
> >>To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [C38] crossing oceans
> >>
> >>John:
> >>   a tyro is a beginner. Someone who knows only the rudiments. I'm no
> >>expert. My feeling that C38's aren't a good choice for crossing oceans
> >>is the advice of the surveyor who did my boat at purchase. The C38
> >>features that to his mind said "choose another boat if you want to
> >>cross oceans" were the lack of stern buoyancy ---part and parcel of an
> >>IOR
> >>boat--- combined with the poor cockpit drainage, combined with the huge
> >>passageway allowing water from pooping into the cockpit. The second two
> >>can be fixed. But, as I said, I'm no expert. What do others feel about
> > this?
> >>Don
> >>
> >>On 4/2/11 7:20 PM, John Felkins wrote:
> >>> Sorry, but what's a "tyro?" Also, why don't you think the C38 is a good
> > passage maker?
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 11:00 AM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Send Listserve mailing list submissions to
> >>>>     listserve at catalina38.org
> >>>>
> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>>>     http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>>>     listserve-request at catalina38.org
> >>>>
> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>>>     listserve-owner at catalina38.org
> >>>>
> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>>> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Today's Topics:
> >>>>
> >>>>    1. Different builds? (John Felkins)
> >>>>    2. Re: Different builds? (Harry Powell)
> >>>>    3. Re: Different builds? (Don Strong)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Message: 1
> >>>> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:28:56 -0500
> >>>> From: John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "listserve at catalina38.org"<listserve at catalina38.org>
> >>>> Subject: [C38] Different builds?
> >>>> Message-ID:<057FF911-B3CA-44E8-BBB6-78A0D2C62B73 at gmail.com>
> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
> >>>>
> >>>> Smooth sailing,
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Message: 2
> >>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:38:26 +0000 (GMT)
> >>>> From: Harry Powell<harrypowell at mac.com>
> >>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
> >>>> Cc: jrfelkins at gmail.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
> >>>> Message-ID:<acc74510-842a-4f24-ab9d-cd641fdac383 at me.com>
> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> >>>>
> >>>> My 1984 is just about the perfect year, also for sale in San Diego at
> > the moment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kidding aside, when I was looking I looked at the systems; electrical
> > for upgraded wiring and clean runs, etc. And electroics; original?
> > working?
> > Also engine especially routine maintenance and exhaust system. The boats
> > are
> > very similar from year to year and the later years have a few "upgrades"
> > but
> > are quite simply not as old and have seen less wear and tear.
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at inventory as sails are expensive. Check the engine log as
> > rebuilds are expensive.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers!?
> >>>> Harry?
> >>>> Sum Fun,hull #258
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 01, 2011, at 11:28 AM, John Felkins<jrfelkins at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
> >>>>
> >>>> Smooth sailing,
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Listserve mailing list
> >>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> >>>> scrubbed...
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> >>>> ments/20110402/148f51b6/attachment-0001.html>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Message: 3
> >>>> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 08:44:33 -0700
> >>>> From: Don Strong<drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
> >>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Different builds?
> >>>> Message-ID:<4D974461.9090405 at ucdavis.edu>
> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear John:
> >>>>       Discreet Charm is C38 number 50 built in 1980. We all love the
> >>>> way our boats sail, the large interior of C38s, and the superior
> >>>> craftsmanship. So I will tell you what I don't like about them.
> >>>> Common to all IOR boats is the pinched stern, which means no space
> >>>> aft. The C36 does not have a pinched stern. I also dislike the very
> >>>> restricted space in the engine room. To be able to view amply and
> >>>> work around the engine of a sailboat is a real plus that the C38
> >>>> doesn't have.  Finally, the early boats like mine have small fuel
> >>>> tanks, 20 gals, and replacement with a larger fuel tank is a lot of
> >>>> work
> > and expense.
> >>>>      These are the only minuses that I have encountered in 8 years
> >>>> of ownership. I will say that if I had the choice to repurchase my
> >>>> boat I would. I would not buy a C36 because I think they look like
> >>>> pigs, and appearance is a big part of the hedonic pleasure one takes
> > from a yacht.
> >>>> I wouldn't buy an Erickson to get the great engine access because
> >>>> they don't sail nearly as well as a C38. The fuel limitation can be
> >>>> worked around, it isn't a problem unless you were to want to cross
> >>>> oceans. I don't think the C38 is a great ocean crossing boat, but
> >>>> I'm pretty much a tyro about ocean crossing.
> >>>>      I'll bet others have different opinions. I look forward to the
> >>>> other responses to your question.
> >>>>      Regards, Don
> >>>>
> >>>> PS. Renovation and refitting is really expensive. Buy a boat that
> >>>> has recently been renovated and refitted.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/1/11 11:28 AM, John Felkins wrote:
> >>>>> I'm a Cal38 admirer, not an owner (yet). I'm wondering if there are
> > years of manufacture that are more desirable than others? I like the boat
> > for it's pedigree, lines, size, price and the Pardeys recommendation. Now
> > I'm starting to look more closely. Thank for any feedback!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Smooth sailing,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Listserve mailing list
> >>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>>> --
> >>>> Donald R. Strong
> >>>> C38 Discreet Charm
> >>>> Emerycove, San Francisco Bay
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Listserve mailing list
> >>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 224
> >>>> *****************************************
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Listserve mailing list
> >>> Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >>
> >>--
> >>Donald R. Strong
> >>Professor
> >>Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
> >>University of California, Davis 95616
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Listserve mailing list
> >>Listserve at catalina38.org
> >>http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:26:31 -0700
> > From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> > To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> > Subject: Re: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> > Message-ID: <392501BCC93AAC4EA94D28D8DB1599226928C7 at sockeye.4M.local>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Just dropped mine and had a similiar problem with one of the four bolts
> > clamping
> > the unit to the post.  We ended up using socket extensions to get the
> > wrench so
> > that a second person could put a pipe on it from within the quarter berth.
> >  I
> > layed in place and held the socket on the head of the bolt and supported
> > the
> > extensions so that the other crew member could reef on the damn thing.  It
> > took
> > a whole lot of grunting and groaning.
> >
> > Aluminium heats and expands faster than the stainless bolt, you might try
> > heating and then applying more WD40 or PB Blaster and waiting a few hours.
> >  tap
> > the head of the bolt after heating and spraying the WD to allow the WD40
> > to
> > penetrate into the threads  Im assuming you also removed the two smaller
> > bolts
> > at the outer edge of the wheel in addition to the four large ones in the
> > center.
> >
> >
> > When you get it out let me know what your post looks like, I thought they
> > were
> > solid posts, I was surprised to find that ours looked to be about Schedule
> > 40
> > pipe.
> >
> > Steve
> > #312 Peregrine
> > Seattle
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of david at dlrfilms.com
> > Sent: Sun 4/3/2011 6:32 PM
> > To: Catalina 38 Listserve
> > Subject: [C38] Rudder Drop Woes
> >
> >
> >
> > Had a friend out today to help drop the rudder, and it would have happened
> > except we couldn't get the under the deck tiller from the old wheel off
> > the damn rudder post!
> >
> > Amazingly, the four bolts camping the thing together around the post
> > backed out with out too much trouble, but the big drift pin wouldn't
> > budge.
> >
> > We tried heat, PB blaster, brute force, and cunning mechanical advantage
> > and only the slightest seem opened up between the shaft and the tiller.
> >
> > I am *discouraged*.
> >
> > Any helpful thoughts before I cut the damn thing off with an angle
> > grinder?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
> > http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> >
> >
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Listserve mailing list
> > Listserve at catalina38.org
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> >
> >
> > End of Listserve Digest, Vol 7, Issue 229
> > *****************************************
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
> 
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