[C38] America Held Hostage

Mon May 16 20:43:40 EDT 2011

just blow it off!

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Anders Finn <anders at finn.ws> wrote:

>  Everyone,
>
> We do not censor or review all messages before they come through. Members
> who abuse this will dealt with.
>
> Anders
> Webmaster
>
>
> On 05/16/2011 03:34 PM, Patrick Harpole wrote:
>
> I totally agree.
> Patrick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* D McC <cat38skip at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 16, 2011 2:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] America Held Hostage
>
>   If this Horse$#!+ keeps showing up, I am out of here.... Keep your
> religion and your politics to yourself !
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> Common Sense is a rare gift from the Gods.
> Most people have only technical training!
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
> sailing.
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> When in doubt, try the vice You haven't tried before!
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/16/11, Patrick Harpole <1derful at comcast.net><1derful at comcast.net>
> * wrote:
>
>
> From: Patrick Harpole <1derful at comcast.net> <1derful at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [C38] America Held Hostage
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org><listserve at catalina38.org>
> Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 2:45 PM
>
>  *How did this political statement get on a  sailing site?*
> *Blue eyes*
> *San Francisco Bay*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Don Strong <http://mc/compose?to=drstrong@ucdavis.edu>
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve<http://mc/compose?to=listserve@catalina38.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 16, 2011 1:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] America Held Hostage
>
>  Steve: You are a naughty boy! Don
>
> On 5/16/11 1:39 PM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
>
>  Can we please limit political discussion on the board to only those that
> are favorable to the Republican view point?
>
>  *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org<http://mc/compose?to=listserve-bounces@catalina38.org>[
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org<http://mc/compose?to=listserve-bounces@catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Bill Haynes
> *Sent:* Monday, May 16, 2011 1:32 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] America Held Hostage
>
> Paul, you need to read this column for what Paul Krugman says here is the
> honest to God truth.
>
> Bill
>
> May 15, 2011
>
> New York Times
>
> *America Held Hostage*
>
> By PAUL KRUGMAN
>
> Six months ago President Obama faced a hostage situation. Republicans
> threatened to block an extension of middle-class tax cuts unless Mr. Obama
> gave in and extended tax cuts for the rich too. And the president
> essentially folded, giving the G.O.P. everything it wanted.
>
> Now, predictably, the hostage-takers are back: blackmail worked well last
> December, so why not try it again? This time House Republicans say they will
> refuse to raise the debt ceiling — a step that could inflict major economic
> damage — unless Mr. Obama agrees to large spending cuts, even as they rule
> out any tax increase whatsoever. And the question becomes what, if anything,
> will get the president to say no.
>
> The debt ceiling itself is a strange feature of U.S. law: since Congress
> must vote to authorize spending and choose tax rates, why have a second vote
> on whether to allow the borrowing that these spending and taxation policies
> imply? In practice, however, legislators have historically been willing to
> raise the debt ceiling as necessary, so this quirk in our system hasn’t
> mattered very much — until now.
>
> What has changed? The answer is the radicalization of the Republican Party.
> Normally, a party controlling neither the White House nor the Senate would
> acknowledge that it isn’t in a position to impose its agenda on the nation.
> But the modern G.O.P. doesn’t believe in following normal rules.
>
> So what will happen if the ceiling isn’t raised? It has become fashionable
> on the right to assert that it would be no big deal. On Saturday the
> editorial page of The Wall Street Journal ridiculed those worried about the
> consequences of hitting the ceiling as the "Armageddon lobby."
>
> It’s hard to know whether the "what, us worry?" types believe what they’re
> saying, or whether they’re just staking out a bargaining position. But in
> any case, they’re almost surely wrong: seriously bad consequences will
> follow if the debt ceiling isn’t raised.
>
> For if we hit the debt ceiling, the government will be forced to stop
> paying roughly a third of its bills, because that’s the share of spending
> currently financed by borrowing. So will it stop sending out Social Security
> checks? Will it stop paying doctors and hospitals that treat Medicare
> patients? Will it stop paying the contractors supplying fuel and munitions
> to our military? Or will it stop paying interest on the debt?
>
> Don’t say "none of the above." As I’ve written before, the federal
> government is basically an insurance company with an army, so I’ve just
> described all the major components of federal spending. At least one, and
> probably several, of these components will face payment stoppages if federal
> borrowing is cut off.
>
> And what would such payment stops do to the economy? Nothing good. Consumer
> spending would probably crash, as nervous seniors started wondering how to
> pay for rent and food. Businesses that depend on government purchases would
> slash payrolls and cancel investments.
>
> Furthermore, markets might well panic, especially if interest payments are
> missed. And the consequences of undermining faith in U.S. debt might be
> especially severe because that debt plays a crucial role in many financial
> transactions.
>
> So hitting the debt ceiling would be a very bad thing. Unfortunately, it
> may be unavoidable.
>
> Why? Because this is a hostage situation. If the president and his allies
> operate on the principle that failure to raise the debt ceiling is an
> unthinkable outcome, to be avoided at all cost, then they have ceded all
> power to those willing to bring that outcome about. In effect, they will
> have ripped up the Constitution and given control over America’s government
> to a party that only controls one house of Congress, but claims to be
> willing to bring down the economy unless it gets what it wants.
>
> Now, there are good reasons to believe that the G.O.P. isn’t nearly as
> willing to burn the house down as it claims. Business interests have made it
> clear that they’re horrified at the prospect of hitting the debt ceiling.
> Even the virulently anti-Obama U.S. Chamber of Commerce has urged Congress
> to raise the ceiling "as expeditiously as possible." And a confrontation
> over spending would only highlight the fact that Republicans won big last
> year largely by promising to protect Medicare, then promptly voted to
> dismantle the program.
>
> But the president can’t call the extortionists’ bluff unless he’s willing
> to confront them, and accept the associated risks.
>
> According to Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, Mr. Obama has told
> Democrats not to draw any "line in the sand" in debt negotiations. Well,
> count me among those who find this strategy completely baffling. At some
> point — and sooner rather than later — the president has to draw a line.
> Otherwise, he might as well move out of the White House, and hand the keys
> over to the Tea Party.
>  ------------------------------
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>
> --
> Donald R. Strong
> Professor
> Dept. of Evolution and Ecology
> University of California, Davis 95616
>
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-- 
W H Knowles
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