[C38] Overheat False Alarm
Max Soto
maxsoto at gmail.com
Mon Jun 6 12:55:43 EDT 2011
*FYI*, the kubota water pump for our engines (5424 or M30) can be found new
for as low as $70 on ebay...
Max
2011/6/6 <david at dlrfilms.com>
> I seem to remember reading something similar on the Westerbeke/Universal
> website a year or two ago, but damned if I can find it again.
>
>
> > I wasn't aware that hot vapor could cause false gauge readings. I have
> > noticed totally the opposite on several engines, after some loss of
> > coolant
> > I noticed that the temp on the gauge totally fell because there was no
> > coolant in contact with the sender....
> >
> > When I replaced the coolant on my engine I was dealing with that
> > bubble..You
> > know that you have it when the engine temp is rising and you touch the
> > heat
> > exchanger and it is cool.. Tried everything and at the end my uncle came
> > and
> > told me to hammer the engine for a few seconds at as max as the lever
> > permits (without the cap). After a few seconds the bubble came out and
> > almost immediately the temp begun coming down and the heat exchanger was
> > warm already.... He said that sometimes with a few cycles like this all
> > stubborn bubbles should come out!
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Regards, Max
> >
> > 2011/6/6 <david at dlrfilms.com>
> >
> >> This morning I googled [two way pressure cap] and saw that that's what I
> >> have, which brought me back to square one, so thanks very much for the
> >> below!
> >>
> >> I haven't given our engine much thought because we rarely use it, and
> >> usually only for a few minutes at a time. But now that I'm taking people
> >> out for money, "hang on folks, I'll have this fixed in a few minutes"
> >> isn't going to cut it.
> >>
> >> Saturday's trip was booked solid, but the wind was SE 15-25. We gave it
> >> a
> >> try, but it was cold and wet. Back to the dock and refunds all around.
> >>
> >> Yesterday was just two people. Light winds and warm until the sun got
> >> low.
> >> My daughter brought up some blankets to our passengers who were snuggled
> >> up together on the bow. One of them was from Colorado and had never even
> >> seen birds diving on bait.
> >>
> >> http://on.fb.me/k2a6jR
> >>
> >> > David,
> >> > Unfortunately, I don't think you have gotten rid of your bubble. The
> >> > flow you observe with the cap off is kind of working as your pump is
> >> > circulating water, but it is more of an agitation rather than real
> >> flow.
> >> > Both Tom and Larry give you perhaps the two answers that routinely
> >> > work. Look to the forward, port side, bottom of your engine for the
> >> > drain fitting. You should notice if you trace it back that this
> >> > location leads back to the heat exchanger and your hot water heater
> >> > (that is where this bubble resides). When you fill from the bottom,
> >> you
> >> > fill the system in the opposite direction of the water pump flow and
> >> > this forces the bubble out and up. Remember your thermostat has only
> >> a
> >> > small "flow hole" and it can take time (I usually take the thermostat
> >> > out while doing this).
> >> > I can't tell you how much time and angst I went through to learn this!
> >> > The damn bubble can move around so that sometimes it is distributed
> >> > enough to allow some flow, which makes you think some magic has
> >> happened
> >> > and your temp looks great. And the next time it is concentrated and
> >> > allows no flow! And I can tell you without qualification that the
> >> > bubble is a very close cousin to that guy Murphy which means things go
> >> > wrong at the worst time!
> >> >
> >> > Any time you are working on the cooling side of your engine (pump
> >> > impeller, heat exchanger, coolant change, etc.), you should refill
> >> > through the lower fitting. Adding antifreeze like Tom describes along
> >> > with the expansion modification is also a must as running just water
> >> in
> >> > our engines should only be done in emergencies.
> >> > One alternative I now use is I bought one of those inexpensive pumps
> >> > that fit on the end of a drill. This allows me to pump my antifreeze
> >> in
> >> > through the bottom of the engine and I no longer have to drain down
> >> the
> >> > system to add it.
> >> >
> >> > I hope this doesn't come across as complicated because it really is
> >> > not. The trick is installing a hose fitting to your drain valve.
> >> >
> >> > What I think is most frustrating is that the Westerbeke/Universal
> >> folks
> >> > must know all about this problem, but do not comment on it! Old time
> >> > marine engine mechanics know all about it, but most of the ones we run
> >> > into at shipyards are young...
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Chuck Finn
> >> > Mighty Quinn #114
> >> > Still not in the water because of flooding
> >> > Great Lakes
> >> >
> >> > On 6/5/2011 3:46 PM, david at dlrfilms.com wrote:
> >> >> This might be the solution right here!
> >> >>
> >> >> I have a coolant recovery tank, but I don't see how the pressure cap
> >> >> would
> >> >> allow coolant to flow to it unless it was subject to high pressure;
> >> the
> >> >> seal is spring loaded and takes quite a bit of force to move.
> >> >>
> >> >> Furthermore, ran the engine with the coolant level down/cap off and
> >> it
> >> >> ran
> >> >> just fine for 30 minute. I could see the coolant circulating
> >> vigorously.
> >> >>
> >> >> But when I put the cap on I the temp rose and we were back to square
> >> >> one.
> >> >> As this was happening I was wondering whether or not caps were
> >> univeral.
> >> >>
> >> >> Will take mine to an autopart store and compare to a two-way.
> >> >>
> >> >> I love sailing. I hate motors.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Correction:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I failed to mention replacing the pressure cap if anyone does
> >> install
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> coolant recovery tank as I described in my last post. You will have
> >> to
> >> >>> replace the original pressure cap with a modern 2-way cap made for
> >> >>> recovery tanks. Our original caps were one way only and will not
> >> allow
> >> >>> the expansion tanks to operate. Any automotive parts store should
> >> be
> >> >>> able
> >> >>> to match up your old cap with a new 2-way cap.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Tom Troncalli
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: Richard West
> >> >>> To: Larrypi at roadrunner.com;Catalina 38 Listserve
> >> >>> Sent: 6/5/2011 11:47:18 AM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [C38] Overheat False Alarm
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Mine used to get air in the hoses to of from the water heater. For
> >> >>> some
> >> >>> reason I don't really understand, this stopped the coolant from
> >> >>> circulating in the engine. It happened any time I had to disconnect
> >> >>> those
> >> >>> heater hoses for any reason. The only solution I found was
> >> detaching
> >> >>> one
> >> >>> of the heater hoses and use a turkey baster to force coolant through
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> heater circuit.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> RIch, Legacy, #360
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Larry
> >> Malmberg<Larrypi at roadrunner.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I believe there is a small plug near the water pump that you can
> >> >>> remove,
> >> >>> add
> >> >>> coolant until it comes out, replace the plug, run the engine for a
> >> >>> couple
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> moments, remove the plug again and air will come out, keep doing
> >> until
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> have no more air. This is just from memory.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Best regards,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Larry Malmberg
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 7231 Boulder Avenue Suite 507
> >> >>> Highland, CA 92346 PI 15211
> >> >>> Telephone 909-208-1847
> >> >>> FAX 909-991-7568
> >> >>>
> >> >>> E Mail Larrypi at roadrunner.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
> >> >>> truly,
> >> >>> Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you
> >> smile..
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control
> >> >>> immigration"
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
> >> >>> safely
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> >> >>> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; WOW--
> >> >>> What a
> >> >>> Ride!"
> >> >>>
> >> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message, including any
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> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> >> >>> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >>> david at dlrfilms.com
> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:17 AM
> >> >>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> >> >>> Subject: [C38] Overheat False Alarm
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My engine is back to doing that thing where the temp gauge climbs,
> >> the
> >> >>> alarm
> >> >>> goes off, but the engine itself is not even too hot to touch, and I
> >> can
> >> >>> stick my finger in the coolant without getting scalded.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This problem plagued our 2008 and 2009 Summer sailing, but wasn't
> >> too
> >> >>> big
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> concern because we never ran the engine for more than about 5-10
> >> >>> minutes.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thought I had it licked before our passage to the Caribbean in Nov
> >> >>> 2009,
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> indeed, ran the motor for hours on end with no such problem.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But now it's back, and with the wind out of the SE, that means
> >> getting
> >> >>> back
> >> >>> into the harbor is a long enough run to get the overheat false
> >> alarm.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> IIRC, cracking the thermostat housing open would (usually) solve the
> >> >>> problem.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The other thing I notice is that coolent is not following through
> >> the
> >> >>> overflow tube to the reserve tank. It's not blocked; it seems like
> >> >>> there's
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> air bubble that's keeping the coolant from flowing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I remember something about running the engine, and then adding more
> >> >>> coolant
> >> >>> after it burps or some such. I have my manual and will re-read.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Meanwhile, any helpful hints are much appreciated.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >
> > --
> > Max Soto
> > C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> > Puntarenas, Costa Rica
> > _______________________________________________
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--
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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