[C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update

Tue Aug 9 15:44:43 EDT 2011

Tom, That's great info... That's why I love this forum!!
Wasn't aware that the starter can do as a generator. Now I now what to do in
the same situation.
Regards,
Max

2011/8/9 tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>

>  *Hello Max and forum,*
> **
> *The problem with Larry's starter seems to be that the Bendix on the
> starter has stuck in the engaged position making the starter run by the
> flywheel instead of it disengaging once the engine has started.*
> **
> *A brush type DC motor is a generator if turned by any mechanical source,
> like an engine.  Some gasoline golf carts use a generator to provide both
> starting and recharging.  These starter/generators are very large but geared
> so they run at very low speeds to prevent over reving.  Some Gravely
> tractors also used this starter/generator system.  You can attach an old
> generator from an old car of the days before alternators to a battery and it
> will spin like any electric motor.*
> **
> *There is essentially no difference between a generator and a starter
> motor other than the starter having a Bendix gear that is supposed to
> mechanically disengage the spur gear once electrical source of power to it
> is stopped.  If that Bendix sticks in the engaged position, the starter
> becomes an unregulated generator supplying very high voltage and amperage to
> the electrical system.  This is a very dangerous situation.  Not only can it
> burn out everything in the system like the alternator, light bulbs,
> electronics, etc, but it can also overload the wiring causing fires.*
> **
> *They really need to disconnect the starter battery the second they get
> the engine running and have everything turned off when they crank the
> engine.  Hopefully it's not too late and hopefully they have figured this
> out already.*
> **
> *Tom Troncalli*
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com>
> *To: *tdtron at earthlink.net;Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
> *Sent:* 8/9/2011 12:58:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update
>
> At least the starter was not destroyed and they were able to start the
> engine...  Weird that they are having the overheat problem on the electrical
> system, but at least they can charge batteries and make water.....
>
> Max
>
> 2011/8/9 tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>
>
>>  *Wow!  I have never heard of a starter armature not coming apart
>> when the starter Bendix didn't disengage.  The low RPM's of our engines has
>> probably saved the day because in a higher RPM car that starter wouldn't be
>> fit even for a core exchange.*
>> **
>> *This is truly good news, even if they are now experiencing overcharging
>> from that "generator" starter.  Hopefully the starter and ring gear will
>> hold up long enough to get them home.  *
>> **
>> *As a side note, if Larry does end up having to replace the ring gear
>> after he gets home, it will be a good time to get rid of the steel flex
>> plate on the flywheel and replace it with a PYI synthetic flex plate.  The
>> original flex plates on our boats tend to fatigue the springs over time and
>> when the springs do break apart, there is no positive contact left to turn
>> the transmission.   The engine just feels like it is in neutral and those
>> little pieces of springs just go around and around making a mess of the bell
>> housing.  I know, it has happened to me and others I have spoken to.  The
>> PYI flex plate has positive engagement even if the synthetic damping
>> material fails so you keep on going regardless.  I also replaced my
>> Universal shaft coupling with a PYI synthetic coupling at the same time and
>> the engine became much smoother at all speeds.  It was like adding more
>> cylinders to the engine, there was no comparison to the original
>> components.  I can't say which of the two components made the most
>> improvement but as a pair, the results were nothing short of wonderful.*
>> **
>> *Keep us posted on Larry, thanks.*
>> **
>> *Tom Troncalli*
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>> *To: *Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
>> *Sent:* 8/9/2011 7:51:54 AM
>> *Subject:* [C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update
>>
>>  Passing along an update from Team Hassle.  I passed along the suggestion
>> to jump the solenoid not sure if that is what got their motor going or not
>> but the next day they got it started, as you can see below its not an ideal
>> situation but at least they have the ability to recharge and make additional
>> water.
>>
>> Steve
>> #312 Peregrine
>> Seattle
>>
>>
>>  Hi All
>> He is David's Email for today.
>> Keep the Faith
>>
>> Tamara J. Summers
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> Hassle called at 1300 PDT and I spoke to Larry.
>>
>>
>>
>>    - Their current position is 35 38.9N 149 25.5W. This is east of where
>>    we advised that they head yesterday. Please see the map below.
>>    - They covered almost 90 miles yesterday in variable winds
>>    - The wind is currently about 10 knots from the east and they are
>>    making around 6 knots on a course of 000. I advised them to head north on a
>>    course of 345 and to fall off to the west if possible. I told them that they
>>    would need to be up around 42-44 before they would see the westerly winds.
>>    - They are now able to start the engine; however the electrical system
>>    quickly overheats, apparently from excessive charging. They suspect that the
>>    starter motor is still engaged and acting as a generator. Since they have
>>    bypassed the fuses, this is a dangerous situation and they can only run the
>>    engine for around 20 minutes at a time.
>>    - They are making water, using each of the house batteries
>>    sequentially. A battery at full charge is able to produce about four gallons
>>    of water.
>>    - They have been fishing and so far have caught 2 Dorado.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Other items:
>>
>>
>>
>>    - Next to each of the parts, I’ve indicated the person who volunteered
>>    to get them. We still need volunteers for the start switch and the fuel
>>    separator filters.
>>    - Adrian and Larry will stay aboard the boat and bring it to Long
>>    Beach. Caleb and John will probably get of at Moss Landing. So there are 2 –
>>    4 slots available for the return crew.
>>
>>
>>
>> Parts required:
>>
>>
>>
>>    - DK - 4 – ANL 150 fuses
>>    - JM - 1 - Starter motor part number is #200948 the engine is a
>>    Westerbeke Universal B M-25XPB. (Kubota)
>>    - 1 – Push button start switch
>>    - DJ - 2 – Auto float switches for the bilge pump
>>    - DK - 1 – Package 10-12 gauge butt connectors
>>    - 2 – Fuel separator filters
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Notes:
>>
>>
>>
>> ?         The red track is Expedition’s proposed track to route them
>> around the high.
>>
>> ?         The wind barbs are as of this afternoon. Although the route
>> appears to be directly through the high, there will be significant changes
>> in the location of the high over the next few days.
>>
>> ?         The marks with dates reflect Hassle’s actual location on that
>> date.
>>
>> ?         The computer estimate of time to Moss Landing is around 14
>> days.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Kraai
>>
>> President
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Max Soto
> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>
>
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>
>

-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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