[C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update

Tue Aug 9 15:33:19 EDT 2011

Hello Max and forum,

The problem with Larry's starter seems to be that the Bendix on the starter has stuck in the engaged position making the starter run by the flywheel instead of it disengaging once the engine has started.

A brush type DC motor is a generator if turned by any mechanical source, like an engine.  Some gasoline golf carts use a generator to provide both starting and recharging.  These starter/generators are very large but geared so they run at very low speeds to prevent over reving.  Some Gravely tractors also used this starter/generator system.  You can attach an old generator from an old car of the days before alternators to a battery and it will spin like any electric motor.

There is essentially no difference between a generator and a starter motor other than the starter having a Bendix gear that is supposed to mechanically disengage the spur gear once electrical source of power to it is stopped.  If that Bendix sticks in the engaged position, the starter becomes an unregulated generator supplying very high voltage and amperage to the electrical system.  This is a very dangerous situation.  Not only can it burn out everything in the system like the alternator, light bulbs, electronics, etc, but it can also overload the wiring causing fires.

They really need to disconnect the starter battery the second they get the engine running and have everything turned off when they crank the engine.  Hopefully it's not too late and hopefully they have figured this out already.

Tom Troncalli

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Max Soto 
To: tdtron at earthlink.net;Catalina 38 Listserve
Sent: 8/9/2011 12:58:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update

At least the starter was not destroyed and they were able to start the engine...  Weird that they are having the overheat problem on the electrical system, but at least they can charge batteries and make water.....

Max

2011/8/9 tdtron at earthlink.net <tdtron at earthlink.net>

Wow!  I have never heard of a starter armature not coming apart when the starter Bendix didn't disengage.  The low RPM's of our engines has probably saved the day because in a higher RPM car that starter wouldn't be fit even for a core exchange.

This is truly good news, even if they are now experiencing overcharging from that "generator" starter.  Hopefully the starter and ring gear will hold up long enough to get them home.  

As a side note, if Larry does end up having to replace the ring gear after he gets home, it will be a good time to get rid of the steel flex plate on the flywheel and replace it with a PYI synthetic flex plate.  The original flex plates on our boats tend to fatigue the springs over time and when the springs do break apart, there is no positive contact left to turn the transmission.   The engine just feels like it is in neutral and those little pieces of springs just go around and around making a mess of the bell housing.  I know, it has happened to me and others I have spoken to.  The PYI flex plate has positive engagement even if the synthetic damping material fails so you keep on going regardless.  I also replaced my Universal shaft coupling with a PYI synthetic coupling at the same time and the engine became much smoother at all speeds.  It was like adding more cylinders to the engine, there was no comparison to the original components.  I can't say which of the two components made the most improvement but as a pair, the results were nothing short of wonderful.

Keep us posted on Larry, thanks.

Tom Troncalli

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steve Smolinske 
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Sent: 8/9/2011 7:51:54 AM 
Subject: [C38] FW: 8/6/2011 1300 PDT Hassle update

Passing along an update from Team Hassle.  I passed along the suggestion to jump the solenoid not sure if that is what got their motor going or not but the next day they got it started, as you can see below its not an ideal situation but at least they have the ability to recharge and make additional water.   

Steve
#312 Peregrine
Seattle

Hi All
He is David's Email for today.
Keep the Faith

Tamara J. Summers

Hassle called at 1300 PDT and I spoke to Larry.

Their current position is 35 38.9N 149 25.5W. This is east of where we advised that they head yesterday. Please see the map below. 
They covered almost 90 miles yesterday in variable winds 
The wind is currently about 10 knots from the east and they are making around 6 knots on a course of 000. I advised them to head north on a course of 345 and to fall off to the west if possible. I told them that they would need to be up around 42-44 before they would see the westerly winds. 
They are now able to start the engine; however the electrical system quickly overheats, apparently from excessive charging. They suspect that the starter motor is still engaged and acting as a generator. Since they have bypassed the fuses, this is a dangerous situation and they can only run the engine for around 20 minutes at a time. 
They are making water, using each of the house batteries sequentially. A battery at full charge is able to produce about four gallons of water. 
They have been fishing and so far have caught 2 Dorado. 

Other items:

Next to each of the parts, I’ve indicated the person who volunteered to get them. We still need volunteers for the start switch and the fuel separator filters. 
Adrian and Larry will stay aboard the boat and bring it to Long Beach. Caleb and John will probably get of at Moss Landing. So there are 2 – 4 slots available for the return crew. 

Parts required:

DK - 4 – ANL 150 fuses 
JM - 1 - Starter motor part number is #200948 the engine is a Westerbeke Universal B M-25XPB. (Kubota) 
1 – Push button start switch 
DJ - 2 – Auto float switches for the bilge pump 
DK - 1 – Package 10-12 gauge butt connectors 
2 – Fuel separator filters 

Notes:

?         The red track is Expedition’s proposed track to route them around the high.
?         The wind barbs are as of this afternoon. Although the route appears to be directly through the high, there will be significant changes in the location of the high over the next few days.
?         The marks with dates reflect Hassle’s actual location on that date.
?         The computer estimate of time to Moss Landing is around 14 days.

David Kraai
President

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-- 
Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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