[C38] How to approach an argument with a sailor

[Steve Smolinske]

Maybe the confusion is incorrectly using terminology planing versus surfing, our displacement boats and all displacement boats can catch a wave and surf. 

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From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Patrick Harpole
Sent: Tue 9/13/2011 10:29 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] How to approach an argument with a sailor


I referred to a "displacement " which cannot plane.  I have about 20,000 pounds in my keel.  It will not plane.
There is no limit to the speed of a planing vessel.  That's is why catamarans go mast.
While in Florida I saw Whitbread (if you are not familiar....this is a race around the world) boats.  I would not call them nor America's Cup boats displacement vessels.  They are very light and have winged keels that bring them out of the water.
Patrick
P.S.  what is the fastest tack for a sailing boat?  Clue:  it is not downwind.

	----- Original Message ----- 
	From: David A Hadfield <mailto:dahadfield at gmail.com>  
	To: Catalina 38 Listserve <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>  
	Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:16 PM
	Subject: Re: [C38] How to approach an argument with a sailor

	Patrick
	
	On being uninformed.
	
	The SC37 can plane in downwind attitudes, 
	ie. go faster than calculated hull speed. 
	
	These are apples and oranges and one must be careful on exactly what one is addressing.
	
	
	
	On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Patrick Harpole <1derful at comcast.net> wrote:
	

		I sail a Catalina 38 and reached 12 to 14 knots sailing from Benecia to Berkeley.  The reason for the speed is an ebb current at 6 knots.
		There is no way a displacement vessel can reach greater than their calculated hull speed.  When one exceeds hull speed they are unduly stressing their rig...which might come down.  What a shame for being stupid.
		Patrick
		----- Original Message ----- From: <david at dlrfilms.com>
		To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
		Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:47 PM
		Subject: Re: [C38] How to approach an argument with a sailor 




			Not too long ago I saw a video of a CAL 40 running offshore in a big wind
			with a heavy kite. They were sustaining over 15 kts and hitting high
			teens.
			
			Does the Santa Crus 37 plane? If it does, 15-20 kts wouldn't be outrageous.
			
			
			
			

				Advice seeking time.
				
				So, I've got a friend who sails on a VERY fast boat. A very winning
				boat. Probably one of the fastest in San Francisco. It's crewed by a
				bunch of amazing sailors including some Cup guys. However, she's not
				really a sailor and I've had to explain things like what a knot is vs
				mph. The boat is a Santa Cruz 37 rates in a 27PHRF. Now, she claims and
				has some text messages from other crew saying they've hit 26knots in the
				bay. I call BS. I pull out all my math on hull speed, plain force
				calculations on what it would take to make that boat go into full plane.
				I've tried showing what PHRF means and that a 27 means they only average
				1/2 knot faster than the J/105's. I've tried pulling out their race
				times and showing they're only averaging about 6-7knots during races. .
				This does not matter.
				
				 Probably most of us have seen exceedences in hull speed for our boats
				going down waves and whatnot. However, that's not the claim. The claim
				is they REGULARLY go 16-20 knots in bay races. This is 2x or more their
				hull speed. .
				
				Thoughts on how to explain this or anyone have experience with a SC37?
				
				Anders
				
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	-- 
	Respectfully,
	David Hadfield
	
	Plan-B Design Group
	2011 E Gage Ave
	LA, CA 90255
	dahadfield at gmail.com
	SKYPE david.alan.hadfield
	www.bit.ly/planbdesigngroup
	
	310.871.2012 C
	

	
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