[C38] Twin Disc direct replacement for Hurth or ZF tranmissions

Thu Sep 22 23:05:21 EDT 2011

Mark,

I installed used Harken 60st 3 speeds and have been very happy with them.
They came off a Swan 42 which upgraded to electric ones.  Attached is a
photo of them.

BTW welcome to the Catalina 38 listserve.  There is a wealth of information
there and even more at our website  www.catalina38.org

especially if you join the association and get a password.

Phil Gay

C38 049 Que Linda

Everett, WA

From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Mark O'Dell
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:29 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Twin Disc direct replacement for Hurth or ZF tranmissions

Hey All...

Please excuse the intrusion on this thread, but I am NEW to the list and I
don't exactly know the etiquette involved in using this email list, or how
it all works....so here goes...

My name is Mark O'Dell, my father John and I recently purchased '83 C38 #230
(was SPIRIT, now MOMENTOUS) out of Holiday Point Marina in Edgewater, MD. 

We moved the boat up to our yard on Jones Creek, off the Patapsco River in
Baltimore. We got an insane deal on her, and she is in great shape... sails
great, runs great, all seems to be well... and loaded with gear, electronics
and sails! 

I was excited to hear from this thread that there are a few C38s in my area.
The G.O.B. Regatta sounds fun as hell, and hopefully in the future I could
catch up with you, crew for you, or race along side of you... but for the
immediate future, I was wondering if I might solicit some advice on a few
things related to winch upgrades / access, and dodgers frames.

Winch Upgrades / Access: 

I still have the old Lewmar 48 3spds, and I've been anxious to switch them
out for STs. So, I found a GREAT deal on a set of Lewmar 48STOR alloys off a
boat in annap., but when I went to put them on I found two things: 1) There
was virtually NO access to the portside winch due to a propane locker and
the actual position of the winch itself and, 2) the physical dimensions of
these new 48s were significantly smaller than the 3spds... so much so, that
I just didn't think they were beefy enough to use, not to mention the glass
work that I'd have to do to cover up the now exposed old bolt hole pattern.

I was thinking of stepping it up to the Lewmar 58stors (found a deal on
those too). They look as if they will match in foot print and physical size
much closer. 

I've tried to do some online photo research to see what other C38s have, but
honestly, it looks as if the majority (of the ones that are for sale at
least), still have the old 3spds. 

So.... what do I use? What is a popular model for primary winch upgrades?
58s?  And... how about port access... honestly, it's really looking like I
have to cut a new access panel in the headliner above the galley ice box.(?)

Factory dodger frames:

I would very much like to install a California-style dodger. Was this a
factory option when new? Are there factory frame templates that exist
anywhere? Any recommendations for who to use locally (Balt / Annap), or
where to obtain one? Obviously I can go custom, just thought I'd ask.

Again, sorry for the intrusion to this thread.... Please let me know if
there is a proper way to do this stuff.

Thanx for listening, and I look forward to being a productive member of this
list. So far I couldn't be more satisfied with owning a C38.

Mark O'Dell

Momentous

C38 #230

Baltimore, MD

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Max Soto <maxsoto at gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Chuck,

We are on the same page her...

I just checked the manual from my friends transmission, guess what! It's a
Technodrive twin disc unit. This one is the 60 model (Hurth hbw125
replacement) and the cost was $1260. The 40 is $980 at Transmission Marine
in Fourt Lauderdale. This is by far the cheapest place that I have found for
transmissions and parts.  Www. Marinegears.com

Regards, max

Sent from my iPod

On Sep 19, 2011, at 7:14, Chuck Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:

Max,
This looks very much like the Beta Marine transmission I installed this
summer!  TECHNODRIVE Twin Disc TMC 40 P transmission, NEW: US $1,098.00  
from http://soundmarinediesel.com/transmissions.shtml
My original Hurth ZF failed last summer and I had it rebuilt.  Whole job
cost about $3000 and took more than a month.  It failed again this summer
with less than 40 hours total on the transmission.    I don't know whether
the second failure  was due to a bad rebuild or shoddy workmanship by
Shelburne Boatyard (of the 8 bolts that hold the transmission to the engine,
3 were so loose they were removed without a wrench).  Our webmaster (Anders)
removed the Hurth transmission the second time around and it took him 45
minutes.  

I did have problems with the original Beta transmission sent (it would not
reliably shift into forward), but the folks at sound marine diesel were so
accommodating that despite having to switch it out I would still recommend
them.  They spent a couple hours on the phone with me and even sent the
replacement without charging me for having two of their transmissions in my
possession  (I wanted the replacement on hand so I could change it out when
I had the time).
You should also be aware there is a 1/4 inch difference in the height of
these transmissions.  For those of us keeping the 5424, this requires we
lower the engine a 1/4 inch.  This can be challenging, given where our motor
mounts are and the fact most folks will find the nuts and threads are in
rough shape.  Speaking of motor mounts!  I highly recommended that you
change out your motor mounts and install a flex coupler when changing the
transmission!  You can pretty much bet your motor mounts need replacing
after 10 years and some engine manufacturers recommend half that time.
Another reason to change your motor mounts during transmission work is there
is a lot more room back there to work without the transmission in the way
and it takes about 40 pounds off the motor lift. 
And don't let a boatyard tell you you need to pull the boat to do this!  I
paid for three lifts ($900) because Shelburne Boatyard insisted this was
necessary. They said the prop shaft would have to be removed to make room.
After disconnecting the drive shaft coupling, put a hose clamp on the end of
the shaft and slide it back until there is enough room to work on the
transmission  (the hose coupling ensures you don't accidentally let the
shaft slide out of the boat).

Yes, Steve, I need to write this up as a tech article!

Chuck Finn
Mighty Quinn  #114
Great Lakes

On 9/18/2011 10:12 PM, Max Soto wrote: 

Hi everybody,

For those who are planning to replace the Hurth HBW100 or newer ZF  M10 from
the Universal 5424, M35 and  25XP series, according to some marine engine
manufacturers and some forums, these new ZF trannys are now half as strong
and reliable as our old long lasting Hurths....

I was told that the place that makes all the internals is not the same and
this is what made the huge difference.

 When I was quoting, I was told by the engine sales person  to buy the
bobtail engine and install my old transmission instead of the new ZF10 that
they use, or go to the new Twin Disc MG340.  The twin disc MG340 is the
right replacement for our engines, and is what Phasor MArine and Betamarine
are recommending now after so many problems with  customers that were using
ZF10.... 

They share the same foot print, shaft and coupling measures, so,  same
damper plate and bellhousing adaptor can be used. Engine just has to be
raised 5mm and shifting cable routed to port of the tranny,  and that's it.
They are supposed to be stronger and more reliable. Plus, they are a few
bucks cheaper.  I know it because I just bought one for a friend with a
Perkins engine...

http://www.twindisc.com/MarineProducts/MarineTransSeries_mg_340.html

Again, this is just what I have been told, but after checking some forums,
it appears to be true..... If planning to go this way, please do your own
research... But hopefully, this will help some of you..

Regards,

Max Soto
C38 #198 ESTANCIA
Puntarenas, Costa Rica

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