[C38] Thru Hulls
Chuck Finn
charles at finn.ws
Tue Sep 27 10:07:20 EDT 2011
The Mighty Quinn does not have a saggy butt.
I have the 5424 engine and water heater back there. I also have a 20#
propane tank and an arch with 195 watts of solar panels.
She is a freshwater boat and is out of the water (drying) for a
significant time each year. My rudder also is not waterlogged, which is
a problem if you are in the water all the time.
She does ride a bit higher at the bow, but I think that is because I am
not carrying the full complement of sails it originally had. I do carry
a heavy anchor and a lot of chain, which tends to compensate (about 120
pounds).
She does list slightly to port and that has bothered me as I have no
explanation! I believe this is why she performs better on one one tack
compared to the other.
I would suggest this to all folks who want to make this boat perform.
Consider that weight distribution is key! When underway with your
normal crew in their normal positions, look over the stern and see
whether your wake is "kicking up" almost like a rooster tail over the
transom. If so, your butt is too heavy and move your crew forward. If
it is still the case, move whatever you can toward the mast, keeping it
as low as you can. This is all about making the "proper displacement
wave" that was designed for our hulls. Too high in the bow or low in
the stern makes for a shorter wave, which translates to lower potential
hull speed, which translates into more power to reach speeds. And the
more sail power you need to reach speed tends to drive the boat into an
even less performing wave profile! Essentially the same downward spiral
we see when we over power!
Chuck Finn,
Mighty Quinn #114
Great Lakes
On 9/26/2011 10:10 PM, Peg wrote:
> Chiming in from San Francisco...
>
> I'm actually glad to hear that other people are sailing a C38 with a saggy butt :-) We've noticed the same thing with IRIE -- and with a lighter Yanmar engine& nothing in particular clogging up the stern lazarette we've wondered why.
>
> We've even fielded a suggestion from our diver that we have the boot stripe repainted last time we had her hauled, but after a quick run-through of what it would cost we said, "Nah, we'll let her sit saggy!"
>
> Now I want to hear from someone who *doesn't* have this problem...
>
> Peggy Droesch
> #231 IRIE
> San Francisco
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 26, 2011, at 13:52, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Thru Hulls (tdtron at earthlink.net)
>> 2. Glitch in the system (Chuck Finn)
>> 3. Optimal conditions for a Cat 38? (Steven Ribble)
>> 4. Re: New Guy& Port Winch Access... (Dick Kilroy)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:11:07 -0400
>> From: "tdtron at earthlink.net"<tdtron at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> Subject: Re: [C38] Thru Hulls
>> Message-ID:<380-22011912619117937 at earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Nice brochure of the 5424 Max!
>>
>> While looking at the picture of the 5424, look at the size of the heat exchanger in comparison to the size of the engine. No wonder they overheat!
>>
>> Tom Troncalli
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Max Soto
>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>> Sent: 9/26/2011 12:38:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C38] Thru Hulls
>>
>>
>> heres the 5424 brochure and the salwater pump brochure..
>>
>>
>> Charles, This might be useful on the C38 site..
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Max
>>
>>
>> 2011/9/23 Max Soto<maxsoto at gmail.com>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>> To be exact, Larry's engine M25XPB weights 295, and the 5424 or M30 weights 425, so the real difference is 130 lbs on your side, and 2 more hp on Larry's side!
>>
>>
>> That's why I decided to replace the engine instead of overhauling the original... For 30 lbs less, I got almost twice the hps....
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/9/23 Larry Malmberg<Larrypi at roadrunner.com>
>>
>> Funny, Hassle lists to port as well. I have tried to figure out why, we seem to be fairly well balanced. When washing the cockpit it always drains to the port scupper.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Larry Malmberg
>> Team Hassle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Launie
>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:29 AM
>>
>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>> Subject: Re: [C38] Thru Hulls
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>> The hull mold is one piece and hinged - there are no halfs. Joe Launie/Macavity
>>
>> On 9/23/2011 4:28 AM, Steven Ribble wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> Are you sure that the weight inside the boat is comparable to Larry's? Engine, fuel tank, LP, steering, etc? It seems like a stretch to think the keel, even if waterlogged, would pull the stern down so noticeably...more likely it would weight the entire boat, and maybe a little more so in the stern. Do you have old photos you can use to see if it's always been that way, maybe the weight is in the hull from the factory.
>>
>> Mine is good fore and aft, but lists slightly to port, which I've always assumed was do to all the storage and amenities being on the port side. I try to rationalize that due to the layout of the boat they must have somehow considered that
>> during the design process...so then I start thinking the hull halves are different weights. And so goes the neuroses. ;-)
>>
>> Steve R
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2011, Steve Smolinske<SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:
>>> Joe, no it is 77 pounds lighter than the original one which was not water logged when we removed it.
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of Joseph Launie
>>> Sent: Thu 9/22/2011 11:42 PM
>>> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>> Subject: Re: [C38] Thru Hulls
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>> Is your rudder water-logged or heavier? Joe Launie/Macavity
>>>
>>> On 9/22/2011 9:57 PM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any experience with Shakewell type designed thru hulls or the Forespar Flotech? Im considering closing up four thru hulls and replacing at least 1 of the 3 remaining with the Forespar all in an effort to find that elusive 1/10 of a knot of boat speed. The plan is to close up the one under the Vee berth, the head sink, the macerator and the one where the knot meter use to be on the stbd side of the keel. Then to tee the macerator into the head outlet along with the Head and sump pump, abandon the head sink alltogether, pull water from the engine intake for the head and galley sea water pump, and use the galley sink thru hull for sink discharge and watermaker.
>>>
>>> Also another question I would like input on, for Transpac we had to get the boat measured in the water, the rater then compared our boat with Larry's to see how close they were. Interesting that our stern was about an inch lower in the water than Hassle. If you look at Peregrine from the side you can see the stern boot stripe is in the water or very close. She does not have any other gear other than the radar post in the stern. I did notice on our last haul out that the skeg seeped the entire time she was out, Im wondering if it isnt water weight or something else. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> #312 Peregrine
>>> Seattle
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> --
>> Steve Ribble
>> 207/852-0971
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 16:08:49 -0400
>> From: Chuck Finn<charles at finn.ws>
>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> Subject: [C38] Glitch in the system
>> Message-ID:<4E80DBD1.8030509 at finn.ws>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> There was some sort of problem with our internet provider this weekend,
>> which resulted in about 70 of us getting temporarily blocked from the
>> listserve (including me). I have dealt with the issue, but some of us
>> may have not received messages. For example, I did not get Max's
>> brochure message. I have asked Max to re-send, which knowing Max has
>> probably already happened!
>> All the best,
>> Chuck Finn
>> Commodore
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 16:50:30 -0400
>> From: Steven Ribble<steve.ribble at gmail.com>
>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> Subject: [C38] Optimal conditions for a Cat 38?
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKrT=Pm6v1AjV0GfxxmCy8T5swCArE4tCFjc1z4vrqTKDWPNbQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I apologize if this is a duplicate, from Chuck's email I think I sent this
>> while the web site was in ether-space.
>>
>> This is one for the sage elders of the group! As I'm about to finish my
>> first [serious] campaign season (2 races left) I'm confirming what I knew
>> when I bought the boat 4 years ago...I've got to get a new genny! The
>> current one's a 155% rag and I am thinking about going to a 135 thinking it
>> will be easier to tack (of my 17 races, 10 were single handed (with 4 3rd's)
>> and several times in light air the clew would hang up on the standing
>> rigging...which obviously isn't fast!) and easier keep the wind flow
>> attached due to the higher aspect ratio.
>>
>> So two questions came up, one leading to the other: what was the recommended
>> headsail for the boat when new/designed...and, what conditions (wind speed,
>> point of sail, etc) was the boat designed for?
>>
>> As a follow up, the average wind speed in the Gulf of Maine is 12 knots,
>> does anyone have a headsail suggestion for sailing fast? (assuming that
>> while I could put a reef point in the genoa, it's on a furler and going to
>> be the only headsail)
>>
>> Steve Ribble
>> Tittravate #64
>> 207/852-0971
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 16:51:48 -0400
>> From: "Dick Kilroy"<dickkilroy at comcast.net>
>> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"<listserve at catalina38.org>
>> Subject: Re: [C38] New Guy& Port Winch Access...
>> Message-ID:<8DA45ACF0B624949AEC3D27564756168 at PC157860072221>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Mark: Try Newport Nautical Newport R. I.for winches. they are a consignment store as well a a boat store 401 847 3933. Bud Heaton is the owner.
>>
>> Dick
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Mark O'Dell
>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [C38] New Guy& Port Winch Access...
>>
>>
>> I'd love to, Mike, really I would, but I don't know if I'd be able to get my boat down there for the weekend on such short notice. If I can't... is anyone looking for crew?
>>
>>
>> Mark O
>> Momentous 230
>> Baltimore, MD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Michael Norcross<manorcross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>> Come out for the Good Old Boat Regatta in Annapolis Oct 8 and 9, or at least on Sat the 8th. We have 3 boats signed on, 2 more probables, yours would be the 6th. We will have our own start and its looking like non-spinnaker for the group. We could practice spinnaker during the week or next week end on one boat if there's interest just for the fun of it.
>> Hope you make it.
>>
>> Mike Norcross
>> Escape 318
>> Londontown (Annapolis), MD
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Mark O'Dell<mixedbusinesscontact at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanx for the welcome and picture, Max....
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately for the access though.... I have a rather large double propane locker hanging in the way. Don't know if it's worth taking apart. In the end I'm thinking that the access that I would cut, would be convenient and quite hidden from view, so I might just go for it anyway. The first step is getting winches that fit!
>>
>>
>> Those Lewmar 48stor I bought just ain't big enough (Bummer). Which reminds me... I'm in need of some winches... anybody got a set of 58sts or similar out there? I have the original 3-speeds and the 48s listed below as trade(?)
>>
>>
>> I have the 48s on Craigslist, if anyone knows anybody that might be interested: http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/2617932411.html
>>
>>
>> Also... I just got access to the assoc web site... What a great resource!!! So glad I found you guys. Those drawing are going to come in handy in the future.
>>
>>
>> Again, thanx for all the responses and advice!
>>
>>
>> If anyone is curious, I posted some video of last weekend's cruise on YouTube. Reefed and flying along in 20knts of wind in the coffee-colored Chesapeake! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvKcGVEQhc
>>
>>
>> Mark O'
>> Momentous #230
>> Baltimore, MD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Max Soto<maxsoto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Mark, Welcomo to te group and congrats on Momentous purchase!!!
>>
>>
>> Here's a pic from the inside of the starboard locker looking forward. At the top of the pic, you'll see a small opening and the starboard winch bolts. So, it is very easy to replace it.. no need to cut above the icebox.
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 Estancia
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/9/22 Mark O'Dell<mixedbusinesscontact at gmail.com>
>>
>> Hey All...
>>
>>
>> Please excuse the intrusion on this thread, but I am NEW to the list and I don't exactly know the etiquette involved in using this email list, or how it all works....so here goes...
>>
>>
>> My name is Mark O'Dell, my father John and I recently purchased '83 C38 #230 (was SPIRIT, now MOMENTOUS) out of Holiday Point Marina in Edgewater, MD.
>>
>>
>> We moved the boat up to our yard on Jones Creek, off the Patapsco River in Baltimore. We got an insane deal on her, and she is in great shape... sails great, runs great, all seems to be well... and loaded with gear, electronics and sails!
>>
>>
>> I was excited to hear from this thread that there are a few C38s in my area. The G.O.B. Regatta sounds fun as hell, and hopefully in the future I could catch up with you, crew for you, or race along side of you... but for the immediate future, I was wondering if I might solicit some advice on a few things related to winch upgrades / access, and dodgers frames.
>>
>>
>> Winch Upgrades / Access:
>>
>>
>> I still have the old Lewmar 48 3spds, and I've been anxious to switch them out for STs. So, I found a GREAT deal on a set of Lewmar 48STOR alloys off a boat in annap., but when I went to put them on I found two things: 1) There was virtually NO access to the portside winch due to a propane locker and the actual position of the winch itself and, 2) the physical dimensions of these new 48s were significantly smaller than the 3spds... so much so, that I just didn't think they were beefy enough to use, not to mention the glass work that I'd have to do to cover up the now exposed old bolt hole pattern.
>>
>>
>> I was thinking of stepping it up to the Lewmar 58stors (found a deal on those too). They look as if they will match in foot print and physical size much closer.
>>
>>
>> I've tried to do some online photo research to see what other C38s have, but honestly, it looks as if the majority (of the ones that are for sale at least), still have the old 3spds.
>>
>>
>> So.... what do I use? What is a popular model for primary winch upgrades? 58s? And... how about port access... honestly, it's really looking like I have to cut a new access panel in the headliner above the galley ice box.(?)
>>
>>
>> Factory dodger frames:
>>
>>
>> I would very much like to install a California-style dodger. Was this a factory option when new? Are there factory frame templates that exist anywhere? Any recommendations for who to use locally (Balt / Annap), or where to obtain one? Obviously I can go custom, just thought I'd ask.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, sorry for the intrusion to this thread.... Please let me know if there is a proper way to do this stuff.
>>
>>
>> Thanx for listening, and I look forward to being a productive member of this list. So far I couldn't be more satisfied with owning a C38.
>>
>>
>> Mark O'Dell
>> Momentous
>> C38 #230
>> Baltimore, MD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Max Soto<maxsoto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Chuck,
>> We are on the same page her...
>> I just checked the manual from my friends transmission, guess what! It's a Technodrive twin disc unit. This one is the 60 model (Hurth hbw125 replacement) and the cost was $1260. The 40 is $980 at Transmission Marine in Fourt Lauderdale. This is by far the cheapest place that I have found for transmissions and parts. Www. Marinegears.com
>> Regards, max
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2011, at 7:14, Chuck Finn<charles at finn.ws> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Max,
>> This looks very much like the Beta Marine transmission I installed this summer! TECHNODRIVE Twin Disc TMC 40 P transmission, NEW: US $1,098.00
>> from http://soundmarinediesel.com/transmissions.shtml
>> My original Hurth ZF failed last summer and I had it rebuilt. Whole job cost about $3000 and took more than a month. It failed again this summer with less than 40 hours total on the transmission. I don't know whether the second failure was due to a bad rebuild or shoddy workmanship by Shelburne Boatyard (of the 8 bolts that hold the transmission to the engine, 3 were so loose they were removed without a wrench). Our webmaster (Anders) removed the Hurth transmission the second time around and it took him 45 minutes.
>>
>> I did have problems with the original Beta transmission sent (it would not reliably shift into forward), but the folks at sound marine diesel were so accommodating that despite having to switch it out I would still recommend them. They spent a couple hours on the phone with me and even sent the replacement without charging me for having two of their transmissions in my possession (I wanted the replacement on hand so I could change it out when I had the time).
>> You should also be aware there is a 1/4 inch difference in the height of these transmissions. For those of us keeping the 5424, this requires we lower the engine a 1/4 inch. This can be challenging, given where our motor mounts are and the fact most folks will find the nuts and threads are in rough shape. Speaking of motor mounts! I highly recommended that you change out your motor mounts and install a flex coupler when changing the transmission! You can pretty much bet your motor mounts need replacing after 10 years and some engine manufacturers recommend half that time. Another reason to change your motor mounts during transmission work is there is a lot more room back there to work without the transmission in the way and it takes about 40 pounds off the motor lift.
>> And don't let a boatyard tell you you need to pull the boat to do this! I paid for three lifts ($900) because Shelburne Boatyard insisted this was necessary. They said the prop shaft would have to be removed to make room. After disconnecting the drive shaft coupling, put a hose clamp on the end of the shaft and slide it back until there is enough room to work on the transmission (the hose coupling ensures you don't accidentally let the shaft slide out of the boat).
>>
>> Yes, Steve, I need to write this up as a tech article!
>>
>> Chuck Finn
>> Mighty Quinn #114
>> Great Lakes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/18/2011 10:12 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>>
>> For those who are planning to replace the Hurth HBW100 or newer ZF M10 from the Universal 5424, M35 and 25XP series, according to some marine engine manufacturers and some forums, these new ZF trannys are now half as strong and reliable as our old long lasting Hurths....
>> I was told that the place that makes all the internals is not the same and this is what made the huge difference.
>> When I was quoting, I was told by the engine sales person to buy the bobtail engine and install my old transmission instead of the new ZF10 that they use, or go to the new Twin Disc MG340. The twin disc MG340 is the right replacement for our engines, and is what Phasor MArine and Betamarine are recommending now after so many problems with customers that were using ZF10....
>> They share the same foot print, shaft and coupling measures, so, same damper plate and bellhousing adaptor can be used. Engine just has to be raised 5mm and shifting cable routed to port of the tranny, and that's it. They are supposed to be stronger and more reliable. Plus, they are a few bucks cheaper. I know it because I just bought one for a friend with a Perkins engine...
>>
>>
>> http://www.twindisc.com/MarineProducts/MarineTransSeries_mg_340.html
>>
>>
>> Again, this is just what I have been told, but after checking some forums, it appears to be true..... If planning to go this way, please do your own research... But hopefully, this will help some of you..
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Soto
>> C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>> Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>>
>>
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