[C38] Head

Wed Oct 19 12:00:40 EDT 2011

Thought I would take a moment to clear up the laws on raw sewage:

All boats operating in US waters with permanently installed toilets are required by federal law to have on board a Marine Sanitation Device (MSD) that either stores human waste until it can be transferred ashore, or reduces the coliform count to such low levels that discharged sewage poses no public health hazard...even in populated harbors. While the MSD must satisfy Coast Guard regulations, the boat owner still has a lot of choices of product types and overall system design.

First, you need to familiarize yourself with the laws as they apply to your local boating area.

  a.. More than three miles from the coast it is legal to discharge raw (untreated) waste overboard, either directly from the toilet or by emptying the holding tank. We think the most sensible sanitation system design gives you the choice of both a dockside pump-out and the ability to empty the tank yourself when offshore (see illustrations below). 
  b.. Inside the three-mile limit, it is illegal to dump raw sewage. In these areas, boaters may discharge waste only if it has been treated by an onboard treatment device like the Raritan Electro Scan (Type I or II MSD). Otherwise, it must be contained on board in a Type III MSD-a holding tank-and transferred ashore at a pump-out station (which, in many cases, sadly, means it will get a modest amount of treatment before finding its way back into the water). 
  c.. All non-navigable inland freshwater lakes and the Great Lakes (under an agreement with Canada that predates US federal marine sanitation laws) are No Discharge Zones (NDZ) under federal law. All navigable interstate inland waterways- except for a few specifically designated NDZ such as impoundments that are municipal reservoirs-are areas where treated discharge is permitted, making Type I and II MSDs legal to use. In NDZs overboard discharge of any kind is illegal and subject to fine. This means you must have a holding tank. And in some places you may not even be allowed a Y-valve, (common in saltwater regions) between the toilet and holding tank for emergency pump-outs or a macerator to dump the tank. Installing a means of locking the Y-valve in the tank position may or may not satisfy local authorities. 
Captain Jeffry Matzdorff
323.855.0191
www.offshoredeliveryskipper.com<http://www.offshoredeliveryskipper.com/>
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Patrick Harpole<mailto:1derful at comcast.net> 
  To: Catalina 38 Listserve<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org> 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 8:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [C38] Head

  Don't know about you other boaters but in the San Francisco Bay the Coast Guard cites boaters who do not have their through hull wired shut.  It is not legal to dump sewage within about 10 to 25 miles of the coast.
  Patrick
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Mark Lewis<mailto:mwlewis at comcast.net> 
    To: Catalina 38 Listserve<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org> 
    Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:41 PM
    Subject: Re: [C38] Head

    There is a two way "y" valve between the holding tank and thru hull. One branch to tank and other to thru hull. The macerator also exits thru hull. The deck pumpout hose drops straight down behind the vberth cabinet. With y valve in tank position it allows sewage to be pumped from tank. 

    Sent from my iPhone

    On Oct 18, 2011, at 9:24 PM, S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com<mailto:ssorton at hotmail.com>> wrote:

      Max,  No, I definitely don't have a valve between the macerator and the holding tank, but I can't remember where the deck pump out hose attaches to the holding tank.  The deck pump hose must go directly to the holding tank, because to pump out all I do is open the deck fitting and it works.
      Cheers, Steve O

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      Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:29:18 -0600
      From: maxsoto at gmail.com<mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>
      To: listserve at catalina38.org<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
      Subject: Re: [C38] Head

      Steve O., You're right. I had to get paper and a pencil and made a diagram, now I get it!! LOL 
      Do you still have the valve before the macerator for the deck pump out fitting???

      Regards,

      Max

      2011/10/11 S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com<mailto:ssorton at hotmail.com>>

        Max,  There are 3 valves involved:
        1)  The 2 way valve that directs the head discharge overb'd or to the holding tank.
        2)  The macerator discharges to the overb'd hose via a tee with a ball shut off valve just before the tee.  This valve keeps sea water from leaking back through the macerator pump into the holding tank.
        3)  The overb'd through hull valve
        Normal operation, where allowed, is discharging the head directly overb'd.  The 2 way valve handle is up with the discharge overb'd and the macerator valve closed.
        For discharging to the holding tank, the 2 way valve handle is down, and the macerator valve is closed.
        To macerate, the 2 way valve is mid position (no flow from the head or worse no flow back into the head) and the macerator valve is open allowing flow overb'd. 

        I think a simple diagram would of explained this better.
        Cheers, Steve O

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        Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 20:13:02 -0600
        From: maxsoto at gmail.com<mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>
        To: listserve at catalina38.org<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
        Subject: Re: [C38] Head

        Steve, 
        How is that Tee for the holding tank and head discharge working??? How many valves have you installed??? I already have one to select if the head discharge goes overboard or to the tank. I'm not sure if this is standard setup or not...

        Regards,

        Max

        2011/10/11 S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com<mailto:ssorton at hotmail.com>>

          Good job Steve!  Something to think about- the upper aft portion of cabinet interferes with a person putting their head directly over the sink.  One of my future projects is to recess that aft cabinet portion outboard to allow more headroom, which would also allow more options for lighting.
          You mentioned in an earlier thread about plugging through hulls to obtain that additional fractional knot.  What we did when we had the bottom peeled and vinylester applied was to:
          1. Plug the head sink drain through hull and run the drain aft and tee it into the galley sink drain.  It works well, but the sink can still overflow on a starb'd beat.  So it didn't solve that problem- I still have to closed the galley drain cock.
          2. Plug the macerator drain and tee it into the head "direct overb'd" with appropriate valving.  This works great- I never understood why you would have two large overboards, side by side, when a tee would work for the same dirty water.
          The biggest benefit from the above rework was the vinylester bottom- the boat definitely float higher!  I didn't go into the peeling operation for that reason though, I wanted get rid of the blisters.  My boat was like small pox all over and this kept me from sanding the hull at the bi-annual haul outs. 
          Thank you for the pictures, as it gives me insight of what I'm up against in reworking the head cabinet.
          Cheers, Steve O 
          Santa Susanna (304)

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          Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:18:48 -0700
          From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com<mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
          To: listserve at catalina38.org<mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
          Subject: [C38] Head 

          Here are the pics after taking out the counter top intersting find in the process.   looking at the sink in the upper left corner of the counter top is where the water pools you can see in the pic a cut out that lead straight to the the salon bulkhead,  any water that accumulates from a shower, the sink or the head sweating runs right down the back of the bulkhead and under the forward cushion.   I always thought my chain plate was leaking and sealed and resealed numerous times.  Took the counter top out of the boat and with it went the musty boat smell, next time on the boat no smell.   The counter was wet in the same upper left corner and some mold.  sprayed with mold killer will paint and reinstall,  thinking that I will run a piece of teak trim along the counter top and the bulkhead sealing it to capture any water on the laminate counter top and in the far upper left corner cut in a flush to the counter top through hull type fitting so any water accumulation can drain into the bilge.   Other idea was to do the same trim detail but install laminate directly over the gelcoat cabinet, make a spacer for the chainplate mount and not worry about wood any longer.   Thoughts or comments please

          Max, the last pic is of the bulge in deck you asked about earlier.   

          Steve
          #312 Peregrine 
          Seattle

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        -- 
        Max Soto
        C38 #198 ESTANCIA
        Puntarenas, Costa Rica

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      -- 
      Max Soto
      C38 #198 ESTANCIA
      Puntarenas, Costa Rica

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