[C38] ugly tow

William Knowles whk1965 at gmail.com
Mon Mar 18 19:07:03 EDT 2013


I remember seeing some guys sail their boat under water during the olympics
think it was a star, the wave increased from the center of the boat and
then just sucked it under.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Charles Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:

>  Actually the wave caused by the displacement of water by the hull builds
> around the entire boat.  I suspect Larry was being pulled up the front of
> the wave a bit due to the force/speed of the tow.  I also am guessing he
> was seeing a lot of froth around the boat as it was kind of planing by
> breaking surface tension of the wave (that is how we go faster than hull
> speed at times). The problem is when the tow breaks and you are no longer
> planing... or being supported up the wave.  The stern part of the wave
> poops you and the forward part of the wave causes the broach!
> cf
>
>
> On 3/18/2013 6:32 PM, William Knowles wrote:
>
> Not sure if someone else said this, I don't think the bow went up, as the
> hull speed increases the stern wave builds. The first time this happened to
> me I thought a boat was right on our side during a race. Scared the cr34p
> out of me.
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>
>> Chuck:
>> Gawd, I'm glad not have have missed the sleep 12 years ago to which that
>> the tug operator could have subjected me. I don't think he realized the
>> shallowness the area between the 90 deg. legs of the fairway. He did remove
>> a big patch of bottom paint (but the cleat held!). What a way to introduce
>> my family to the new boat!
>> I love you guys!
>> Don
>>
>> On 3/18/13 2:30 PM, Charles Finn wrote:
>>
>>> I think what you are experiencing is physics!  Your boat was being
>>> pulled faster than hull speed and was creating a wave longer than the boat.
>>>  The tow was in essence pulling your boat up the front of the wave and your
>>> stern was finding out what being in the bottom of the wave means (sort of
>>> self pooping).  Just a little faster and you would founder!
>>>
>>> Regarding the tow...  Didn't they have you secure a line from your bow
>>> cleat to the mast?  If not.... wow!  Because if anything gave way, you
>>> would certainly have broached and maybe worse.  I learned this while
>>> studying for the USCG Towing Certificate.
>>>
>>> Just something to think about when you can't sleep anyway!
>>>
>>> Chuck Finn
>>> Mighty Quinn  #114
>>> Great Lakes
>>>
>>> On 3/18/2013 3:14 PM, Larry Malmberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only thing I can think of is the bow shape caused it to rise under
>>>> tow
>>>> and pushed the stern down.  The water was boiling at the stern and just
>>>> about to come over.  BTW If you don't have Vessel Assist Unlimited
>>>> Towing I
>>>> strongly suggest it, the cost would have been over 7K for that tow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Larry Malmberg Team Hassle
>>>> Telephone:  909-208-1847
>>>> Fascimiline: 909-991-7568
>>>> E Mail:  larrypi at roadrunner.com
>>>>
>>>> Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>>>> safely in
>>>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in roadside,
>>>> thoroughly
>>>> used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; "WOW-- What a Ride!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>>>> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Don Strong
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:51 AM
>>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] bow up, stern down
>>>>
>>>> Larry:
>>>>      That story about the long,rough tow is fascinating and reassuring
>>>> about our aging beauties.
>>>> I'm especially interested in hearing that the tow sucked the stern down.
>>>> I was warned about this
>>>> before purchasing our C38 by one of those super knowledgeable dudes (aka
>>>> windbags),
>>>> but have never experienced it under sail.
>>>>       Stern up is what we experienced on a hugely cool sail under asym
>>>> spinnaker last week. We finally have
>>>> our top down furler working; it is wonderful!!! The spinny pulls the
>>>> stern up markedly on most points of sail.
>>>> More wind, more bow down. Even when we were pushing 9 knts in a perfect
>>>> 15knt wind at ca 135 degrees,
>>>> the stern was up. Of course, stern up is a problem when the dumb sheet
>>>> man (moi) lets the wind overpower the boat;
>>>> rudder out of the water, no can steer, yikes! Let that sheet go!
>>>> D
>>>>
>>>> On 3/18/13 10:33 AM, Larry Malmberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right you are Don, we were towed from Ensenada Mexico to Long Beach CA
>>>>>
>>>> when
>>>>
>>>>> our transmission went out, used the bow cleat all the way and no
>>>>> problems
>>>>> what so ever.  Vessel Assist went about 8 knots, the bow was up high
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> stern low.  I kept waiting for water to rush in over the stern, never
>>>>> happened though.  LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry Malmberg Team Hassle
>>>>> Telephone:  909-208-1847
>>>>> Fascimiline: 909-991-7568
>>>>> E Mail:  larrypi at roadrunner.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>>>>> safely
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in roadside,
>>>>>
>>>> thoroughly
>>>>
>>>>> used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; "WOW-- What a Ride!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>>>>> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Don Strong
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:29 AM
>>>>> To: hlhowell at pacbell.net; Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] What is the issue with C38 bow cleats?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Friends:
>>>>>     I have lost the thread on this post. Please remind me of it. I will
>>>>> comment, however, that our C38 central bow cleat is beafy. As evidence
>>>>> I
>>>>> over the experience that I, Mr Moron, had as we motored on to a mudbank
>>>>> on the way out of the harbor on our first day of ownership of Discreet
>>>>> Charm. (I will spare you the family's comments on the seamanship of the
>>>>> coxswain).
>>>>>
>>>>> The tug that was dredging our marina took pity, and his crewed rowed a
>>>>> huge line over to us. It was of such a diameter than the cleat was too
>>>>> small to take a trun. I had to use a smaller line to fasten that
>>>>> massive, greasy, muddy thing to the bow cleat cleat.. The Tug then
>>>>> dragged us across 10 meters of 4 ft deep mud while we heeled to port
>>>>> like mad. Back in the channel, I released the line. Checking the bolts
>>>>> and cleats some 12 years later, no problem.
>>>>> Don
>>>>> C38 Discreet Charm
>>>>> Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/18/13 10:04 AM, les wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Ray,
>>>>>>     I am reposting your question here to keep the context.
>>>>>> On Sun, 2013-03-17 at 19:45 -0700, Ray Torok wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks for getting back to me on this.  Here's another idea I'm
>>>>>>> toying
>>>>>>> with.  Perhaps you considered it.   Suppose I drill and tap the toe
>>>>>>> rail for the outboard bolts of the cleat?  I would have to shim under
>>>>>>> the inboard part of the cleat, but it would get the cleat farther
>>>>>>> outboard.  Any reaction?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I don't think this is a good idea.  If the cleat should fail in bad
>>>>>> conditions, you would not only lose the cleat, but possibly the
>>>>>> toerail
>>>>>> section and along with that a portion of the deck seal to the hull.  A
>>>>>> really bad situation would escalate immediately to an extremely
>>>>>> dangerous one.  Others may know the construction well enough that they
>>>>>> could advise otherwise, but this is my gut feeling.  When it comes to
>>>>>> the ocean, keeping the water out is my paramount effort in any
>>>>>> emergency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Les H
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> Donald R. Strong
>> Professor,
>> Department of Evolution and Ecology
>> and
>> The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
>> University of California, Davis,
>> Davis CA
>> 95616
>> 530 752 7886
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>  --
> W H Knowles
>
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-- 
W H Knowles
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