[C38] ugly tow

Tue Mar 19 11:49:11 EDT 2013

Great discussion guys. You've given me plenty to think about.  I promise to
be very careful mounting cleats next to the toe rail.

Ray

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM, William Knowles <whk1965 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember seeing some guys sail their boat under water during the
> olympics think it was a star, the wave increased from the center of the
> boat and then just sucked it under.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Charles Finn <charles at finn.ws> wrote:
>
>>  Actually the wave caused by the displacement of water by the hull
>> builds around the entire boat.  I suspect Larry was being pulled up the
>> front of the wave a bit due to the force/speed of the tow.  I also am
>> guessing he was seeing a lot of froth around the boat as it was kind of
>> planing by breaking surface tension of the wave (that is how we go faster
>> than hull speed at times). The problem is when the tow breaks and you are
>> no longer planing... or being supported up the wave.  The stern part of the
>> wave poops you and the forward part of the wave causes the broach!
>> cf
>>
>>
>> On 3/18/2013 6:32 PM, William Knowles wrote:
>>
>> Not sure if someone else said this, I don't think the bow went up, as the
>> hull speed increases the stern wave builds. The first time this happened to
>> me I thought a boat was right on our side during a race. Scared the cr34p
>> out of me.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Don Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck:
>>> Gawd, I'm glad not have have missed the sleep 12 years ago to which that
>>> the tug operator could have subjected me. I don't think he realized the
>>> shallowness the area between the 90 deg. legs of the fairway. He did remove
>>> a big patch of bottom paint (but the cleat held!). What a way to introduce
>>> my family to the new boat!
>>> I love you guys!
>>> Don
>>>
>>> On 3/18/13 2:30 PM, Charles Finn wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think what you are experiencing is physics!  Your boat was being
>>>> pulled faster than hull speed and was creating a wave longer than the boat.
>>>>  The tow was in essence pulling your boat up the front of the wave and your
>>>> stern was finding out what being in the bottom of the wave means (sort of
>>>> self pooping).  Just a little faster and you would founder!
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the tow...  Didn't they have you secure a line from your bow
>>>> cleat to the mast?  If not.... wow!  Because if anything gave way, you
>>>> would certainly have broached and maybe worse.  I learned this while
>>>> studying for the USCG Towing Certificate.
>>>>
>>>> Just something to think about when you can't sleep anyway!
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Finn
>>>> Mighty Quinn  #114
>>>> Great Lakes
>>>>
>>>> On 3/18/2013 3:14 PM, Larry Malmberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The only thing I can think of is the bow shape caused it to rise under
>>>>> tow
>>>>> and pushed the stern down.  The water was boiling at the stern and just
>>>>> about to come over.  BTW If you don't have Vessel Assist Unlimited
>>>>> Towing I
>>>>> strongly suggest it, the cost would have been over 7K for that tow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry Malmberg Team Hassle
>>>>> Telephone:  909-208-1847
>>>>> Fascimiline: 909-991-7568
>>>>> E Mail:  larrypi at roadrunner.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>>>>> safely in
>>>>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in roadside,
>>>>> thoroughly
>>>>> used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; "WOW-- What a Ride!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>>>>> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Don Strong
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:51 AM
>>>>> To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] bow up, stern down
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry:
>>>>>      That story about the long,rough tow is fascinating and reassuring
>>>>> about our aging beauties.
>>>>> I'm especially interested in hearing that the tow sucked the stern
>>>>> down.
>>>>> I was warned about this
>>>>> before purchasing our C38 by one of those super knowledgeable dudes
>>>>> (aka
>>>>> windbags),
>>>>> but have never experienced it under sail.
>>>>>       Stern up is what we experienced on a hugely cool sail under asym
>>>>> spinnaker last week. We finally have
>>>>> our top down furler working; it is wonderful!!! The spinny pulls the
>>>>> stern up markedly on most points of sail.
>>>>> More wind, more bow down. Even when we were pushing 9 knts in a perfect
>>>>> 15knt wind at ca 135 degrees,
>>>>> the stern was up. Of course, stern up is a problem when the dumb sheet
>>>>> man (moi) lets the wind overpower the boat;
>>>>> rudder out of the water, no can steer, yikes! Let that sheet go!
>>>>> D
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/18/13 10:33 AM, Larry Malmberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Right you are Don, we were towed from Ensenada Mexico to Long Beach CA
>>>>>>
>>>>> when
>>>>>
>>>>>> our transmission went out, used the bow cleat all the way and no
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> what so ever.  Vessel Assist went about 8 knots, the bow was up high
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> stern low.  I kept waiting for water to rush in over the stern, never
>>>>>> happened though.  LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry Malmberg Team Hassle
>>>>>> Telephone:  909-208-1847
>>>>>> Fascimiline: 909-991-7568
>>>>>> E Mail:  larrypi at roadrunner.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
>>>>>> safely
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in roadside,
>>>>>>
>>>>> thoroughly
>>>>>
>>>>>> used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming; "WOW-- What a
>>>>>> Ride!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>>>>>> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Don Strong
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:29 AM
>>>>>> To: hlhowell at pacbell.net; Catalina 38 Listserve
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C38] What is the issue with C38 bow cleats?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Friends:
>>>>>>     I have lost the thread on this post. Please remind me of it. I
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> comment, however, that our C38 central bow cleat is beafy. As
>>>>>> evidence I
>>>>>> over the experience that I, Mr Moron, had as we motored on to a
>>>>>> mudbank
>>>>>> on the way out of the harbor on our first day of ownership of Discreet
>>>>>> Charm. (I will spare you the family's comments on the seamanship of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> coxswain).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The tug that was dredging our marina took pity, and his crewed rowed a
>>>>>> huge line over to us. It was of such a diameter than the cleat was too
>>>>>> small to take a trun. I had to use a smaller line to fasten that
>>>>>> massive, greasy, muddy thing to the bow cleat cleat.. The Tug then
>>>>>> dragged us across 10 meters of 4 ft deep mud while we heeled to port
>>>>>> like mad. Back in the channel, I released the line. Checking the bolts
>>>>>> and cleats some 12 years later, no problem.
>>>>>> Don
>>>>>> C38 Discreet Charm
>>>>>> Emery Cove, San Francisco Bay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/18/13 10:04 AM, les wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Ray,
>>>>>>>     I am reposting your question here to keep the context.
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2013-03-17 at 19:45 -0700, Ray Torok wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Thanks for getting back to me on this.  Here's another idea I'm
>>>>>>>> toying
>>>>>>>> with.  Perhaps you considered it.   Suppose I drill and tap the toe
>>>>>>>> rail for the outboard bolts of the cleat?  I would have to shim
>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>> the inboard part of the cleat, but it would get the cleat farther
>>>>>>>> outboard.  Any reaction?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I don't think this is a good idea.  If the cleat should fail in bad
>>>>>>> conditions, you would not only lose the cleat, but possibly the
>>>>>>> toerail
>>>>>>> section and along with that a portion of the deck seal to the hull.
>>>>>>>  A
>>>>>>> really bad situation would escalate immediately to an extremely
>>>>>>> dangerous one.  Others may know the construction well enough that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> could advise otherwise, but this is my gut feeling.  When it comes to
>>>>>>> the ocean, keeping the water out is my paramount effort in any
>>>>>>> emergency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Les H
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Listserve mailing list
>>>>>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>>>>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Donald R. Strong
>>> Professor,
>>> Department of Evolution and Ecology
>>> and
>>> The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
>>> University of California, Davis,
>>> Davis CA
>>> 95616
>>> 530 752 7886
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> W H Knowles
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> W H Knowles
>
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