[C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Ray Torok
torok13731 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 17 16:47:14 EDT 2013
Steve,
In your procedure, it seems the mast must be free to move at the partners,
at least when you start. At some point do you put wedges or something in
at the partners?
My mast has Spartite at the partners, which I understand is a bear to
remove. I decided not to try to remove it, so I didn't even try to center
the masthead as a first step. I just unloaded all the shrouds, then loaded
the uppers evenly by counting turns on the turnbuckles, and then used the
intermediates and lowers to keep the mast in column. Do you see any
problems doing it that way?
Thanks,
Ray
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Steve Smolinske <
SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:
> Phil, ****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes those were taken after centering and tuning, headstay tension would
> still be off. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Steve****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Phil Gay
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:26 PM
>
> *To:* 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank****
>
> ** **
>
> Steve,****
>
> ** **
>
> Are the tension measurements in the excel file for the shrouds with the
> back stay off?****
>
> ** **
>
> Phil Gay****
>
> C38 049 Que Linda****
>
> Everett WA****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smolinske
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:08 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank****
>
> ** **
>
> With regards to tuning the rig, I am in process of writing an article for
> future publication, but the nuts and bolts of it since the discussion came
> up this week:****
>
> ** **
>
> 1) Loosen all shrouds with the exception of the head stay****
>
> 2) Put a tape at the bow then measure back even with the mast and
> put a mark on the rail, use the same measurement on the other side.****
>
> 3) Run a sail slug with messenger up the main sail track attach to
> it a tape measure,****
>
> 4) Measure the distance from the top of the mast to each of the
> marks you made in step 2****
>
> 5) Tighten the uppers on each side until you get the mast head
> centered, measure and remeasure to the marks you made.****
>
> 6) Now begin tightening the lowers, sight up the mast from the base,
> from the stern from the dock until you get the center column straight with
> the top****
>
> a. If one side bows out loosen it rather than tightening the
> opposing side.****
>
> 7) Once you are happy with the alignment recheck to make sure the
> mast head is still on center. Keep tweaking until all is perfect.****
>
> 8) Begin tightening the shrouds using an equal number of turns on
> each side port and starboard, remeasure and sight for alignment and
> centering. ****
>
> 9) Once the rig is snug and aligned I had a rigger tighten to the
> the proper settings, then I bought a Louse gauge and measured the tension
> (file attached)****
>
> 10) Tension the forward and aft lowers****
>
> ** **
>
> For the backstay adjustment remember that the reading on the clylinder is
> not the wire tension, the manufacturer of your backstay adjuster should
> have a table that converts cylinder reading to wire tension. I tension my
> rig at the maximum setting to 3300-3500 lbs, that is a reading of something
> like 1600 on my cylinder. I attached a batten to the cylinder marked its
> location and then taped it in place, I then tensioned the rig to 2200 and
> put a piece of tape, and then again at 3300 (Red piece of tape) for
> reference when adjusting the backstay. The royces article states
> something like normal sailing at 2200 and heavy winds at 3300-3500 lbs. I
> can tell you at 3500 the mast does bend and it is noticeable from a
> distance, nothing like a carbon mast but you will see the pre bend. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Its actually pretty easy to do yourself, takes some time but well worth
> the effort. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Steve****
>
> Peregrine #312****
>
> Seattle****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *torok13731 at gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:07 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve; Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Tom,****
>
> ****
>
> Very cool. You are miles ahead of me. I’d like to see photos of your
> mast step repair. I’m afraid it’s only a matter of time before that and
> the mast rewiring projects make it to the top of my list.****
>
> ****
>
> Thanks much,****
>
> Ray****
>
> ****
>
> Sent from Windows Mail****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Tom T.****
>
> *Sent:* June 25, 2013 6:49 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank****
>
> ****
>
> Hello Ray,
>
> Believe it or not, my boat had the wiring from the mast going from the
> bilge to the nav station between the inner and outer hulls at a place below
> the forward edge of the nav station. There was no way to see this route
> and to use a steel fish tape would be dangerous unless you disconnect the
> battery bank and disconnect from shore power since you will be coming up
> the starboard hull if you feed from the bilge. I had to run several wires
> over the years and pushing a fish tape from the bilge allowed me to reach
> the back side of the electrical panel area with very little problem. I
> even had a closed circuit tv camera on the masthead so I could see forward
> on a small tv from the nav station. This was really nice at anchor at
> Egmont Key at the entrance of Tampa Bay when we anchored overnight. With
> the TV we could look over the island to see the sunset which was hidden by
> palm trees. The camera would also show fish, boat traffic or trash in the
> water from the nav station. The reason I mentioned this is I had the coax
> from the mast routed via the route discussed above and with the talk on the
> forum about re-wiring masts, this was one of my mast wiring projects. I
> got the little color CCTV camera for about $30 at Harbor Freight Tools and
> instead of using their 120v transformer, I picked up the vessel's 12v in
> the forward settee where the terminal strip to the mast was located. I
> just ran an additional service wire from the nav station electrical panel
> via the route above.
>
> I put an air conditioner under the nav station and fed the condensate hose
> via this route also so the condensate would feed to the bilge. The
> condensate hose was larger than the wires but all went the same route.
>
> I have picture of the mast step modification/repair and also my air
> conditioner if you or anyone else is interested.
>
> Tom Troncalli
> Ex-owner 1981 #95****
>
> On 6/25/2013 12:57 PM, Ray Torok wrote:****
>
> Thanks Tom. That's good info. My boat has lots of wires in the bilge,
> anchored to the underside of the cabin sole on one side. Sounds like they
> did it differently in the newer boats. How does your mast wiring get back
> to the nav station? ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks, Ray Torok****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom T. <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:****
>
> Between cabin sole below the mast and the keel is a piece of timber. Mine
> became soft and I had to cut out the sole to remove the soft wood. I
> replaced the wood with laid up fiberglass in a mold I formed in the bilge.
> This was a very difficult project but it allowed me to glass in a couple of
> electrical PVC wide angles for my lightning ground cables which I attached
> to the inside of the mast before it was re-installed. I also attached
> another ground cable to the aluminum mast base while the mast was out
> making it a conductor to the forward keel bolt which is almost impossible
> to get to except with this procedure. I ended up with three 1/2" ground
> cables, two going along either side of the bilge, connected to the keel
> bolts, and terminating at the engine block. The third cable was from the
> mast base to the front keel bolt.
>
> I kept my mast wiring going out through the port side hole in the lower
> mast by the forward settee but you could use this technique to use an
> electrical PVC elbow to carry the mast wiring but then you would have the
> wiring in the bilge instead up high and dry like Catalina did it.
>
> I have sent a nylon messenger down from the top of the mast with a small
> fishing weight and was able to snag it with a piece of mechanics wire once
> the line was down. I had no problem snagging the messenger through that
> little hole in the mast. I did it with the mast wires still in the hole
> too.
>
> There are several places where wood was used on the Catalina 38 where
> other materials would have been better, the mast step is one of them.
>
> Tom Troncalli ****
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> On 6/24/2013 7:14 PM, Ray Torok wrote:****
>
> The idea was to look at cutting the cabin sole (not the mast) to get
> better access to the bottom of the mast and the step. I'm not sure how
> much it would help. The idea of additional holes in the mast is another
> question. ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Donald Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
> wrote:****
>
> Don't hole that mast!
>
> On 6/24/13 3:39 PM, Ray Torok wrote:****
>
> Argh! Isn't this why they invented saber saws? ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM, littlebreeze at comcast.net <
> littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:****
>
> Shit ****
>
>
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
> ****
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Max Soto" <maxsoto at gmail.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast****
>
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 15:17****
>
> ** **
>
> Exactly, in that tiny space between the holding tank and the fiberglass..
>
> Max Soto ****
>
> +506-8312-1367****
>
> Alajuela, Costa Rica ****
>
>
> On 24/06/2013, at 16:07, "littlebreeze at comcast.net" <
> littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:****
>
> So to clarify, most are using the existing hole(s) on the dinette side of
> the mast. I mean in that tiny space between the mast and the holding tank.
> No one is adding a hole on the companion way side of the mast, for
> access, and then putting a cover over the hole after the wires are run?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
> ****
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 13:53****
>
> ** **
>
> That should work if there is enough room in the conduit and the wires are
> not wrapped all around each other, if you try make sure to really tape the
> messenger and the wires together very good. ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 12:37 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast****
>
> ****
>
> No I didn't. I'm learning more and more as I go along. But I'm wondering
> if I can use one of the existing wires as a messenger?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
> ****
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 09:11****
>
> ****
>
> Kerry, did they leave a messenger in your conduit when they rewired the
> mast?****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 9:43 AM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast****
>
> ****
>
> If it was 30 year old wiring in the mast I wouldn't even ask the question.
> The mast wiring is only six years old and was changed when the mast was
> pulled for painting. But its still a valid answer.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
> ****
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "cat38skip" <cat38skip at yahoo.com>
> To: <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 06:06****
>
>
>
> Kerry,****
>
> We re-wired the entire mast, in place, last year, New masthead light and
> wires new steaming/deck light and wire, new VHF cable and antenna and
> re-strung the masthead wind transducer. We have a 1 1/2 inch hole near the
> bottom of the mast at cabin sole level. It was easy :-) . That is, after
> the hard, frustrating hours and days of mistakes & re-re-re-pulling of the
> tangled wires and messenger strings. Once we sorted out the best messenger
> to use (weed eater 'string') it was a matter of having someone up top who
> was comfortable being there AND who knew what he was doing, 2-way
> communication and staging the sequence and materials. We replaced all the
> bulbs with LED's so the wire guage was reduced significantly. We used
> multi-wire cable to reduce tangles. The PO had installed all primary wire
> and it was a mess. ****
>
> Give me a call or we can get together ..****
>
> Do you have someone to go uo there for you?****
>
> ****
>
> Dave****
>
>
>
>
> Sent from South San Francisco, where the wind never stops.****
>
>
> littlebreeze at comcast.net wrote:****
>
> Happy Fathers Day to the group.
>
> I was thinking of installing a wind speed indicator at the top of the
> mast. However when I looked into accessing the existing wiring and PVC
> conduit, it looks to be an impossible task without pulling the mast. Has
> anyone overcome this issue without pulling the mast? The only way I can
> come up with is to cut a 3.5 inch hole in the starboard side of the mast
> approximately 6" from the bottom of the mast, and then, after making the
> appropriate connections, affix a cover plate to the access hole. Will
> this weaken the mast beyond use? Should I just pull the mast?
>
> Kerry Grimes
> Little Breeze 139
> San Francisco ****
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