[C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Steve Smolinske
SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
Wed Jul 17 17:00:00 EDT 2013
Ray, no I do not, it already has the partners and they haven't fallen
out so I haven't worried about it.
Without centering the masthead Im not sure what the effect is on the
overall system,
Steve
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Ray Torok
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Steve,
In your procedure, it seems the mast must be free to move at the
partners, at least when you start. At some point do you put wedges or
something in at the partners?
My mast has Spartite at the partners, which I understand is a bear to
remove. I decided not to try to remove it, so I didn't even try to
center the masthead as a first step. I just unloaded all the shrouds,
then loaded the uppers evenly by counting turns on the turnbuckles, and
then used the intermediates and lowers to keep the mast in column. Do
you see any problems doing it that way?
Thanks,
Ray
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Steve Smolinske
<SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:
Phil,
Yes those were taken after centering and tuning, headstay tension would
still be off.
Steve
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Phil Gay
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:26 PM
To: 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Steve,
Are the tension measurements in the excel file for the shrouds with the
back stay off?
Phil Gay
C38 049 Que Linda
Everett WA
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Steve Smolinske
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:08 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
With regards to tuning the rig, I am in process of writing an article
for future publication, but the nuts and bolts of it since the
discussion came up this week:
1) Loosen all shrouds with the exception of the head stay
2) Put a tape at the bow then measure back even with the mast and
put a mark on the rail, use the same measurement on the other side.
3) Run a sail slug with messenger up the main sail track attach to
it a tape measure,
4) Measure the distance from the top of the mast to each of the
marks you made in step 2
5) Tighten the uppers on each side until you get the mast head
centered, measure and remeasure to the marks you made.
6) Now begin tightening the lowers, sight up the mast from the
base, from the stern from the dock until you get the center column
straight with the top
a. If one side bows out loosen it rather than tightening the
opposing side.
7) Once you are happy with the alignment recheck to make sure the
mast head is still on center. Keep tweaking until all is perfect.
8) Begin tightening the shrouds using an equal number of turns on
each side port and starboard, remeasure and sight for alignment and
centering.
9) Once the rig is snug and aligned I had a rigger tighten to the
the proper settings, then I bought a Louse gauge and measured the
tension (file attached)
10) Tension the forward and aft lowers
For the backstay adjustment remember that the reading on the clylinder
is not the wire tension, the manufacturer of your backstay adjuster
should have a table that converts cylinder reading to wire tension. I
tension my rig at the maximum setting to 3300-3500 lbs, that is a
reading of something like 1600 on my cylinder. I attached a batten to
the cylinder marked its location and then taped it in place, I then
tensioned the rig to 2200 and put a piece of tape, and then again at
3300 (Red piece of tape) for reference when adjusting the backstay.
The royces article states something like normal sailing at 2200 and
heavy winds at 3300-3500 lbs. I can tell you at 3500 the mast does
bend and it is noticeable from a distance, nothing like a carbon mast
but you will see the pre bend.
Its actually pretty easy to do yourself, takes some time but well worth
the effort.
Steve
Peregrine #312
Seattle
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
torok13731 at gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:07 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve; Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Hi Tom,
Very cool. You are miles ahead of me. I'd like to see photos of your
mast step repair. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before that and
the mast rewiring projects make it to the top of my list.
Thanks much,
Ray
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Tom T.
Sent: June 25, 2013 6:49 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Hello Ray,
Believe it or not, my boat had the wiring from the mast going from the
bilge to the nav station between the inner and outer hulls at a place
below the forward edge of the nav station. There was no way to see this
route and to use a steel fish tape would be dangerous unless you
disconnect the battery bank and disconnect from shore power since you
will be coming up the starboard hull if you feed from the bilge. I had
to run several wires over the years and pushing a fish tape from the
bilge allowed me to reach the back side of the electrical panel area
with very little problem. I even had a closed circuit tv camera on the
masthead so I could see forward on a small tv from the nav station.
This was really nice at anchor at Egmont Key at the entrance of Tampa
Bay when we anchored overnight. With the TV we could look over the
island to see the sunset which was hidden by palm trees. The camera
would also show fish, boat traffic or trash in the water from the nav
station. The reason I mentioned this is I had the coax from the mast
routed via the route discussed above and with the talk on the forum
about re-wiring masts, this was one of my mast wiring projects. I got
the little color CCTV camera for about $30 at Harbor Freight Tools and
instead of using their 120v transformer, I picked up the vessel's 12v in
the forward settee where the terminal strip to the mast was located. I
just ran an additional service wire from the nav station electrical
panel via the route above.
I put an air conditioner under the nav station and fed the condensate
hose via this route also so the condensate would feed to the bilge. The
condensate hose was larger than the wires but all went the same route.
I have picture of the mast step modification/repair and also my air
conditioner if you or anyone else is interested.
Tom Troncalli
Ex-owner 1981 #95
On 6/25/2013 12:57 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
Thanks Tom. That's good info. My boat has lots of wires in the
bilge, anchored to the underside of the cabin sole on one side. Sounds
like they did it differently in the newer boats. How does your mast
wiring get back to the nav station?
Thanks, Ray Torok
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom T. <tdtron at earthlink.net>
wrote:
Between cabin sole below the mast and the keel is a piece of
timber. Mine became soft and I had to cut out the sole to remove the
soft wood. I replaced the wood with laid up fiberglass in a mold I
formed in the bilge. This was a very difficult project but it allowed
me to glass in a couple of electrical PVC wide angles for my lightning
ground cables which I attached to the inside of the mast before it was
re-installed. I also attached another ground cable to the aluminum mast
base while the mast was out making it a conductor to the forward keel
bolt which is almost impossible to get to except with this procedure. I
ended up with three 1/2" ground cables, two going along either side of
the bilge, connected to the keel bolts, and terminating at the engine
block. The third cable was from the mast base to the front keel bolt.
I kept my mast wiring going out through the port side hole in
the lower mast by the forward settee but you could use this technique to
use an electrical PVC elbow to carry the mast wiring but then you would
have the wiring in the bilge instead up high and dry like Catalina did
it.
I have sent a nylon messenger down from the top of the mast with
a small fishing weight and was able to snag it with a piece of mechanics
wire once the line was down. I had no problem snagging the messenger
through that little hole in the mast. I did it with the mast wires
still in the hole too.
There are several places where wood was used on the Catalina 38
where other materials would have been better, the mast step is one of
them.
Tom Troncalli
On 6/24/2013 7:14 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
The idea was to look at cutting the cabin sole (not the
mast) to get better access to the bottom of the mast and the step. I'm
not sure how much it would help. The idea of additional holes in the
mast is another question.
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Donald Strong
<drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
Don't hole that mast!
On 6/24/13 3:39 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
Argh! Isn't this why they invented saber saws?
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM,
littlebreeze at comcast.net <littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:
Shit
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the
2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
----- Reply message -----
From: "Max Soto" <maxsoto at gmail.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"
<listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 15:17
Exactly, in that tiny space between the holding
tank and the fiberglass..
Max Soto
+506-8312-1367 <tel:%2B506-8312-1367>
Alajuela, Costa Rica
On 24/06/2013, at 16:07,
"littlebreeze at comcast.net" <littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:
So to clarify, most are using the
existing hole(s) on the dinette side of the mast. I mean in that tiny
space between the mast and the holding tank. No one is adding a hole
on the companion way side of the mast, for access, and then putting a
cover over the hole after the wires are run?
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of
the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
----- Reply message -----
From: "Steve Smolinske"
<SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"
<listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 13:53
That should work if there is enough room
in the conduit and the wires are not wrapped all around each other, if
you try make sure to really tape the messenger and the wires together
very good.
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
littlebreeze at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 12:37 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
No I didn't. I'm learning more and more
as I go along. But I'm wondering if I can use one of the existing wires
as a messenger?
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of
the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
----- Reply message -----
From: "Steve Smolinske"
<SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve"
<listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 09:11
Kerry, did they leave a messenger in
your conduit when they rewired the mast?
From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
[mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of
littlebreeze at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
If it was 30 year old wiring in the mast
I wouldn't even ask the question. The mast wiring is only six years old
and was changed when the mast was pulled for painting. But its still a
valid answer.
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of
the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
----- Reply message -----
From: "cat38skip" <cat38skip at yahoo.com>
To: <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 06:06
Kerry,
We re-wired the entire mast, in place,
last year, New masthead light and wires new steaming/deck light and
wire, new VHF cable and antenna and re-strung the masthead wind
transducer. We have a 1 1/2 inch hole near the bottom of the mast at
cabin sole level. It was easy :-) . That is, after the hard,
frustrating hours and days of mistakes & re-re-re-pulling of the tangled
wires and messenger strings. Once we sorted out the best messenger to
use (weed eater 'string') it was a matter of having someone up top who
was comfortable being there AND who knew what he was doing, 2-way
communication and staging the sequence and materials. We replaced all
the bulbs with LED's so the wire guage was reduced significantly. We
used multi-wire cable to reduce tangles. The PO had installed all
primary wire and it was a mess.
Give me a call or we can get together ..
Do you have someone to go uo there for
you?
Dave
Sent from South San Francisco, where the
wind never stops.
littlebreeze at comcast.net wrote:
Happy Fathers Day to the group.
I was thinking of installing a wind
speed indicator at the top of the mast. However when I looked into
accessing the existing wiring and PVC conduit, it looks to be an
impossible task without pulling the mast. Has anyone overcome this
issue without pulling the mast? The only way I can come up with is to
cut a 3.5 inch hole in the starboard side of the mast approximately 6"
from the bottom of the mast, and then, after making the appropriate
connections, affix a cover plate to the access hole. Will this weaken
the mast beyond use? Should I just pull the mast?
Kerry Grimes
Little Breeze 139
San Francisco
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