[C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Ray Torok
torok13731 at gmail.com
Thu Jul 18 16:10:28 EDT 2013
Steve O - Thanks for the feedback. I left the masthead where it was for
the reasons you suggest. I should check to see how far off it is.
I agree that this thread has become a mess and apologize for my role in
making it that way.
Ray
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM, S Orton <ssorton at hotmail.com> wrote:
> We have an excellent discussion going on, but the archive thread (subject
> title) is horrible! The subject needs to be broken up between mast wiring
> and mast truing. A few years from now this discussion will be lost.
> Anders, can you relabel this? Ray I also have Spartite installed and I
> centered the mast per Steve S procedure before installing the Spartite. I
> agree to remove the Spartite with the mast installed would be very d*
> ifficult*- you would need to pull the mast to properly remove the epoxy,
> Spartite. My advice now would to check the mast head center on the boat
> per Steve S's procedure. If OK, great, but do not true the mast head by
> bending the mast port to starboard. In a good blow, you may need the extra
> mast strength.
> Cheers, Steve O
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:00:00 -0700
> From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
>
> Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Ray, no I do not, it already has the partners and they haven’t fallen out
> so I haven’t worried about it.
>
>
>
> Without centering the masthead Im not sure what the effect is on the
> overall system,
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Torok
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:47 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> In your procedure, it seems the mast must be free to move at the partners,
> at least when you start. At some point do you put wedges or something in
> at the partners?
>
>
>
> My mast has Spartite at the partners, which I understand is a bear to
> remove. I decided not to try to remove it, so I didn't even try to center
> the masthead as a first step. I just unloaded all the shrouds, then loaded
> the uppers evenly by counting turns on the turnbuckles, and then used the
> intermediates and lowers to keep the mast in column. Do you see any
> problems doing it that way?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Steve Smolinske <
> SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
>
>
> Yes those were taken after centering and tuning, headstay tension would
> still be off.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:
> listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Phil Gay
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:26 PM
>
>
> *To:* 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> Are the tension measurements in the excel file for the shrouds with the
> back stay off?
>
>
>
> Phil Gay
>
> C38 049 Que Linda
>
> Everett WA
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smolinske
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:08 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
>
>
> With regards to tuning the rig, I am in process of writing an article for
> future publication, but the nuts and bolts of it since the discussion came
> up this week:
>
>
> 1) Loosen all shrouds with the exception of the head stay
> 2) Put a tape at the bow then measure back even with the mast and
> put a mark on the rail, use the same measurement on the other side.
> 3) Run a sail slug with messenger up the main sail track attach to
> it a tape measure,
> 4) Measure the distance from the top of the mast to each of the
> marks you made in step 2
> 5) Tighten the uppers on each side until you get the mast head
> centered, measure and remeasure to the marks you made.
> 6) Now begin tightening the lowers, sight up the mast from the base,
> from the stern from the dock until you get the center column straight with
> the top
>
> a. If one side bows out loosen it rather than tightening the
> opposing side.
> 7) Once you are happy with the alignment recheck to make sure the
> mast head is still on center. Keep tweaking until all is perfect.
> 8) Begin tightening the shrouds using an equal number of turns on
> each side port and starboard, remeasure and sight for alignment and
> centering.
> 9) Once the rig is snug and aligned I had a rigger tighten to the
> the proper settings, then I bought a Louse gauge and measured the tension
> (file attached)
> 10) Tension the forward and aft lowers
>
>
>
> For the backstay adjustment remember that the reading on the clylinder is
> not the wire tension, the manufacturer of your backstay adjuster should
> have a table that converts cylinder reading to wire tension. I tension my
> rig at the maximum setting to 3300-3500 lbs, that is a reading of something
> like 1600 on my cylinder. I attached a batten to the cylinder marked its
> location and then taped it in place, I then tensioned the rig to 2200 and
> put a piece of tape, and then again at 3300 (Red piece of tape) for
> reference when adjusting the backstay. The royces article states
> something like normal sailing at 2200 and heavy winds at 3300-3500 lbs. I
> can tell you at 3500 the mast does bend and it is noticeable from a
> distance, nothing like a carbon mast but you will see the pre bend.
>
>
>
> Its actually pretty easy to do yourself, takes some time but well worth
> the effort.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
> Peregrine #312
>
> Seattle
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *torok13731 at gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:07 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve; Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
>
>
> Very cool. You are miles ahead of me. I’d like to see photos of your
> mast step repair. I’m afraid it’s only a matter of time before that and
> the mast rewiring projects make it to the top of my list.
>
>
>
> Thanks much,
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
>
>
> *From:* Tom T.
>
> *Sent:* June 25, 2013 6:49 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
>
>
> Hello Ray,
>
> Believe it or not, my boat had the wiring from the mast going from the
> bilge to the nav station between the inner and outer hulls at a place below
> the forward edge of the nav station. There was no way to see this route
> and to use a steel fish tape would be dangerous unless you disconnect the
> battery bank and disconnect from shore power since you will be coming up
> the starboard hull if you feed from the bilge. I had to run several wires
> over the years and pushing a fish tape from the bilge allowed me to reach
> the back side of the electrical panel area with very little problem. I
> even had a closed circuit tv camera on the masthead so I could see forward
> on a small tv from the nav station. This was really nice at anchor at
> Egmont Key at the entrance of Tampa Bay when we anchored overnight. With
> the TV we could look over the island to see the sunset which was hidden by
> palm trees. The camera would also show fish, boat traffic or trash in the
> water from the nav station. The reason I mentioned this is I had the coax
> from the mast routed via the route discussed above and with the talk on the
> forum about re-wiring masts, this was one of my mast wiring projects. I
> got the little color CCTV camera for about $30 at Harbor Freight Tools and
> instead of using their 120v transformer, I picked up the vessel's 12v in
> the forward settee where the terminal strip to the mast was located. I
> just ran an additional service wire from the nav station electrical panel
> via the route above.
>
> I put an air conditioner under the nav station and fed the condensate hose
> via this route also so the condensate would feed to the bilge. The
> condensate hose was larger than the wires but all went the same route.
>
> I have picture of the mast step modification/repair and also my air
> conditioner if you or anyone else is interested.
>
> Tom Troncalli
> Ex-owner 1981 #95
>
> On 6/25/2013 12:57 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> Thanks Tom. That's good info. My boat has lots of wires in the bilge,
> anchored to the underside of the cabin sole on one side. Sounds like they
> did it differently in the newer boats. How does your mast wiring get back
> to the nav station?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Ray Torok
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom T. <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Between cabin sole below the mast and the keel is a piece of timber. Mine
> became soft and I had to cut out the sole to remove the soft wood. I
> replaced the wood with laid up fiberglass in a mold I formed in the bilge.
> This was a very difficult project but it allowed me to glass in a couple of
> electrical PVC wide angles for my lightning ground cables which I attached
> to the inside of the mast before it was re-installed. I also attached
> another ground cable to the aluminum mast base while the mast was out
> making it a conductor to the forward keel bolt which is almost impossible
> to get to except with this procedure. I ended up with three 1/2" ground
> cables, two going along either side of the bilge, connected to the keel
> bolts, and terminating at the engine block. The third cable was from the
> mast base to the front keel bolt.
>
> I kept my mast wiring going out through the port side hole in the lower
> mast by the forward settee but you could use this technique to use an
> electrical PVC elbow to carry the mast wiring but then you would have the
> wiring in the bilge instead up high and dry like Catalina did it.
>
> I have sent a nylon messenger down from the top of the mast with a small
> fishing weight and was able to snag it with a piece of mechanics wire once
> the line was down. I had no problem snagging the messenger through that
> little hole in the mast. I did it with the mast wires still in the hole
> too.
>
> There are several places where wood was used on the Catalina 38 where
> other materials would have been better, the mast step is one of them.
>
> Tom Troncalli
>
>
>
>
> On 6/24/2013 7:14 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> The idea was to look at cutting the cabin sole (not the mast) to get
> better access to the bottom of the mast and the step. I'm not sure how
> much it would help. The idea of additional holes in the mast is another
> question.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Donald Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Don't hole that mast!
>
> On 6/24/13 3:39 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> Argh! Isn't this why they invented saber saws?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM, littlebreeze at comcast.net <
> littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Shit
>
>
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Max Soto" <maxsoto at gmail.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 15:17
>
>
>
> Exactly, in that tiny space between the holding tank and the fiberglass..
>
> Max Soto
>
> +506-8312-1367
>
> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>
>
> On 24/06/2013, at 16:07, "littlebreeze at comcast.net" <
> littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> So to clarify, most are using the existing hole(s) on the dinette side of
> the mast. I mean in that tiny space between the mast and the holding tank.
> No one is adding a hole on the companion way side of the mast, for
> access, and then putting a cover over the hole after the wires are run?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 13:53
>
>
>
> That should work if there is enough room in the conduit and the wires are
> not wrapped all around each other, if you try make sure to really tape the
> messenger and the wires together very good.
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 12:37 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
>
>
> No I didn't. I'm learning more and more as I go along. But I'm wondering
> if I can use one of the existing wires as a messenger?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 09:11
>
>
>
> Kerry, did they leave a messenger in your conduit when they rewired the
> mast?
>
>
>
> *From:* listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [
> mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org <listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 9:43 AM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
>
>
> If it was 30 year old wiring in the mast I wouldn't even ask the question.
> The mast wiring is only six years old and was changed when the mast was
> pulled for painting. But its still a valid answer.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "cat38skip" <cat38skip at yahoo.com>
> To: <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 06:06
>
>
>
> Kerry,
>
> We re-wired the entire mast, in place, last year, New masthead light and
> wires new steaming/deck light and wire, new VHF cable and antenna and
> re-strung the masthead wind transducer. We have a 1 1/2 inch hole near the
> bottom of the mast at cabin sole level. It was easy :-) . That is, after
> the hard, frustrating hours and days of mistakes & re-re-re-pulling of the
> tangled wires and messenger strings. Once we sorted out the best messenger
> to use (weed eater 'string') it was a matter of having someone up top who
> was comfortable being there AND who knew what he was doing, 2-way
> communication and staging the sequence and materials. We replaced all the
> bulbs with LED's so the wire guage was reduced significantly. We used
> multi-wire cable to reduce tangles. The PO had installed all primary wire
> and it was a mess.
>
> Give me a call or we can get together ..
>
> Do you have someone to go uo there for you?
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> Sent from South San Francisco, where the wind never stops.
>
>
> littlebreeze at comcast.net wrote:
>
> Happy Fathers Day to the group.
>
> I was thinking of installing a wind speed indicator at the top of the
> mast. However when I looked into accessing the existing wiring and PVC
> conduit, it looks to be an impossible task without pulling the mast. Has
> anyone overcome this issue without pulling the mast? The only way I can
> come up with is to cut a 3.5 inch hole in the starboard side of the mast
> approximately 6" from the bottom of the mast, and then, after making the
> appropriate connections, affix a cover plate to the access hole. Will
> this weaken the mast beyond use? Should I just pull the mast?
>
> Kerry Grimes
> Little Breeze 139
> San Francisco
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