[C38] Please write accurate subject lines
Don Strong
drstrong at ucdavis.edu
Thu Jul 18 15:51:45 EDT 2013
Steve has it right. Do not simply press reply and start talking.
Write a clear, informative subject line.
In the first lines of your email give a brief review of what you will be
writing about.
D
On 7/18/13 12:34 PM, S Orton wrote:
> We have an excellent discussion going on, but the archive thread
> (subject title) is horrible! The subject needs to be broken up
> between mast wiring and mast truing. A few years from now this
> discussion will be lost. Anders, can you relabel this? Ray I also
> have Spartite installed and I centered the mast per Steve S procedure
> before installing the Spartite. I agree to remove the Spartite with
> the mast installed would be very d_ifficult_- you would need to pull
> the mast to properly remove the epoxy, Spartite. My advice now would
> to check the mast head center on the boat per Steve S's procedure. If
> OK, great, but do not true the mast head by bending the mast port to
> starboard. In a good blow, you may need the extra mast strength.
> Cheers, Steve O
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:00:00 -0700
> From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
> To: listserve at catalina38.org
> Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Ray, no I do not, it already has the partners and they haven't fallen
> out so I haven't worried about it.
>
> Without centering the masthead Im not sure what the effect is on the
> overall system,
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Torok
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:47 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Steve,
>
> In your procedure, it seems the mast must be free to move at the
> partners, at least when you start. At some point do you put wedges or
> something in at the partners?
>
> My mast has Spartite at the partners, which I understand is a bear to
> remove. I decided not to try to remove it, so I didn't even try to
> center the masthead as a first step. I just unloaded all the shrouds,
> then loaded the uppers evenly by counting turns on the turnbuckles,
> and then used the intermediates and lowers to keep the mast in column.
> Do you see any problems doing it that way?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Steve Smolinske
> <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> Yes those were taken after centering and tuning, headstay tension
> would still be off.
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>] *On Behalf Of *Phil Gay
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:26 PM
>
>
> *To:* 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Steve,
>
> Are the tension measurements in the excel file for the shrouds with
> the back stay off?
>
> Phil Gay
>
> C38 049 Que Linda
>
> Everett WA
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Smolinske
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:08 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> With regards to tuning the rig, I am in process of writing an article
> for future publication, but the nuts and bolts of it since the
> discussion came up this week:
>
> 1)Loosen all shrouds with the exception of the head stay
> 2)Put a tape at the bow then measure back even with the mast and put a
> mark on the rail, use the same measurement on the other side.
> 3)Run a sail slug with messenger up the main sail track attach to it a
> tape measure,
> 4)Measure the distance from the top of the mast to each of the marks
> you made in step 2
> 5)Tighten the uppers on each side until you get the mast head
> centered, measure and remeasure to the marks you made.
> 6)Now begin tightening the lowers, sight up the mast from the base,
> from the stern from the dock until you get the center column straight
> with the top
>
> a.If one side bows out loosen it rather than tightening the opposing side.
>
> 7)Once you are happy with the alignment recheck to make sure the mast
> head is still on center. Keep tweaking until all is perfect.
> 8)Begin tightening the shrouds using an equal number of turns on each
> side port and starboard, remeasure and sight for alignment and centering.
> 9)Once the rig is snug and aligned I had a rigger tighten to the the
> proper settings, then I bought a Louse gauge and measured the tension
> (file attached)
> 10)Tension the forward and aft lowers
>
> For the backstay adjustment remember that the reading on the clylinder
> is not the wire tension, the manufacturer of your backstay adjuster
> should have a table that converts cylinder reading to wire tension. I
> tension my rig at the maximum setting to 3300-3500 lbs, that is a
> reading of something like 1600 on my cylinder. I attached a batten
> to the cylinder marked its location and then taped it in place, I then
> tensioned the rig to 2200 and put a piece of tape, and then again at
> 3300 (Red piece of tape) for reference when adjusting the backstay.
> The royces article states something like normal sailing at 2200 and
> heavy winds at 3300-3500 lbs. I can tell you at 3500 the mast does
> bend and it is noticeable from a distance, nothing like a carbon mast
> but you will see the pre bend.
>
> Its actually pretty easy to do yourself, takes some time but well
> worth the effort.
>
> Steve
>
> Peregrine #312
>
> Seattle
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf Of
> *torok13731 at gmail.com <mailto:torok13731 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:07 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve; Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Very cool. You are miles ahead of me. I'd like to see photos of your
> mast step repair. I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before that
> and the mast rewiring projects make it to the top of my list.
>
> Thanks much,
>
> Ray
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
> *From:* Tom T.
>
> *Sent:* June 25, 2013 6:49 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
>
> Hello Ray,
>
> Believe it or not, my boat had the wiring from the mast going from the
> bilge to the nav station between the inner and outer hulls at a place
> below the forward edge of the nav station. There was no way to see
> this route and to use a steel fish tape would be dangerous unless you
> disconnect the battery bank and disconnect from shore power since you
> will be coming up the starboard hull if you feed from the bilge. I
> had to run several wires over the years and pushing a fish tape from
> the bilge allowed me to reach the back side of the electrical panel
> area with very little problem. I even had a closed circuit tv camera
> on the masthead so I could see forward on a small tv from the nav
> station. This was really nice at anchor at Egmont Key at the entrance
> of Tampa Bay when we anchored overnight. With the TV we could look
> over the island to see the sunset which was hidden by palm trees. The
> camera would also show fish, boat traffic or trash in the water from
> the nav station. The reason I mentioned this is I had the coax from
> the mast routed via the route discussed above and with the talk on the
> forum about re-wiring masts, this was one of my mast wiring projects.
> I got the little color CCTV camera for about $30 at Harbor Freight
> Tools and instead of using their 120v transformer, I picked up the
> vessel's 12v in the forward settee where the terminal strip to the
> mast was located. I just ran an additional service wire from the nav
> station electrical panel via the route above.
>
> I put an air conditioner under the nav station and fed the condensate
> hose via this route also so the condensate would feed to the bilge.
> The condensate hose was larger than the wires but all went the same route.
>
> I have picture of the mast step modification/repair and also my air
> conditioner if you or anyone else is interested.
>
> Tom Troncalli
> Ex-owner 1981 #95
>
> On 6/25/2013 12:57 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> Thanks Tom. That's good info. My boat has lots of wires in the
> bilge, anchored to the underside of the cabin sole on one side.
> Sounds like they did it differently in the newer boats. How does
> your mast wiring get back to the nav station?
>
> Thanks, Ray Torok
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom T. <tdtron at earthlink.net
> <mailto:tdtron at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
> Between cabin sole below the mast and the keel is a piece of
> timber. Mine became soft and I had to cut out the sole to remove
> the soft wood. I replaced the wood with laid up fiberglass in a
> mold I formed in the bilge. This was a very difficult project but
> it allowed me to glass in a couple of electrical PVC wide angles
> for my lightning ground cables which I attached to the inside of
> the mast before it was re-installed. I also attached another
> ground cable to the aluminum mast base while the mast was out
> making it a conductor to the forward keel bolt which is almost
> impossible to get to except with this procedure. I ended up with
> three 1/2" ground cables, two going along either side of the
> bilge, connected to the keel bolts, and terminating at the engine
> block. The third cable was from the mast base to the front keel bolt.
>
> I kept my mast wiring going out through the port side hole in the
> lower mast by the forward settee but you could use this technique
> to use an electrical PVC elbow to carry the mast wiring but then
> you would have the wiring in the bilge instead up high and dry
> like Catalina did it.
>
> I have sent a nylon messenger down from the top of the mast with a
> small fishing weight and was able to snag it with a piece of
> mechanics wire once the line was down. I had no problem snagging
> the messenger through that little hole in the mast. I did it with
> the mast wires still in the hole too.
>
> There are several places where wood was used on the Catalina 38
> where other materials would have been better, the mast step is one
> of them.
>
> Tom Troncalli
>
>
>
>
> On 6/24/2013 7:14 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> The idea was to look at cutting the cabin sole (not the mast)
> to get better access to the bottom of the mast and the step.
> I'm not sure how much it would help. The idea of additional
> holes in the mast is another question.
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Donald Strong
> <drstrong at ucdavis.edu <mailto:drstrong at ucdavis.edu>> wrote:
>
> Don't hole that mast!
>
> On 6/24/13 3:39 PM, Ray Torok wrote:
>
> Argh! Isn't this why they invented saber saws?
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM, littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>
> <littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> Shit
>
>
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina
> 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Max Soto" <maxsoto at gmail.com
> <mailto:maxsoto at gmail.com>>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 15:17
>
> Exactly, in that tiny space between the holding tank and
> the fiberglass..
>
> Max Soto
>
> +506-8312-1367
>
> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>
>
> On 24/06/2013, at 16:07, "littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>"
> <littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> So to clarify, most are using the existing hole(s) on
> the dinette side of the mast. I mean in that tiny
> space between the mast and the holding tank. No one
> is adding a hole on the companion way side of the
> mast, for access, and then putting a cover over the
> hole after the wires are run?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013
> Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
> <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 13:53
>
> That should work if there is enough room in the
> conduit and the wires are not wrapped all around each
> other, if you try make sure to really tape the
> messenger and the wires together very good.
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf
> Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2013 12:37 PM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
> No I didn't. I'm learning more and more as I go
> along. But I'm wondering if I can use one of the
> existing wires as a messenger?
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013
> Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
> <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>>
> To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 09:11
>
> Kerry, did they leave a messenger in your conduit when
> they rewired the mast?
>
> *From:*listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org>
> [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On Behalf
> Of *littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 9:43 AM
> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
> *Subject:* Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast
>
> If it was 30 year old wiring in the mast I wouldn't
> even ask the question. The mast wiring is only six
> years old and was changed when the mast was pulled for
> painting. But its still a valid answer.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013
> Catalina 38 Nationals.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "cat38skip" <cat38skip at yahoo.com
> <mailto:cat38skip at yahoo.com>>
> To: <listserve at catalina38.org
> <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>>
> Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
> Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 06:06
>
>
>
> Kerry,
>
> We re-wired the entire mast, in place, last year, New
> masthead light and wires new steaming/deck light and
> wire, new VHF cable and antenna and re-strung the
> masthead wind transducer. We have a 1 1/2 inch hole
> near the bottom of the mast at cabin sole level. It
> was easy :-) . That is, after the hard, frustrating
> hours and days of mistakes & re-re-re-pulling of the
> tangled wires and messenger strings. Once we sorted
> out the best messenger to use (weed eater 'string') it
> was a matter of having someone up top who was
> comfortable being there AND who knew what he was
> doing, 2-way communication and staging the sequence
> and materials. We replaced all the bulbs with LED's so
> the wire guage was reduced significantly. We used
> multi-wire cable to reduce tangles. The PO had
> installed all primary wire and it was a mess.
>
> Give me a call or we can get together ..
>
> Do you have someone to go uo there for you?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> Sent from South San Francisco, where the wind never stops.
>
>
> littlebreeze at comcast.net
> <mailto:littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Happy Fathers Day to the group.
>
> I was thinking of installing a wind speed indicator at
> the top of the mast. However when I looked into
> accessing the existing wiring and PVC conduit, it
> looks to be an impossible task without pulling the
> mast. Has anyone overcome this issue without pulling
> the mast? The only way I can come up with is to cut a
> 3.5 inch hole in the starboard side of the mast
> approximately 6" from the bottom of the mast, and
> then, after making the appropriate connections, affix
> a cover plate to the access hole. Will this weaken the
> mast beyond use? Should I just pull the mast?
>
> Kerry Grimes
> Little Breeze 139
> San Francisco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
Donald R. Strong
Professor,
Department of Evolution and Ecology
and
The Bodega Marine Laboratory,
University of California, Davis,
Davis CA
95616
530 752 7886
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