[C38] new headsail
S Orton
ssorton at hotmail.com
Thu Jun 26 01:06:02 EDT 2014
David, How did you stow the CF head sail- roll it or fold it? Cheers, Steve
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:18:51 -0700
To: listserve at catalina38.org
From: davidepstein at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [C38] new headsail
David,
I have to say that with all due respect, I disagree with Steve's
conclusions about carbon fiber headsails. For many years, we
purchased a new 155% headsail for SuperStar every two years or so.
At first, they were Mylar, then Kevlar Pinstripe. By the end of two
years, they were often tired and/or tattered. Also, we were not
comfortable carrying them over about 10-11 knots true wind.
When my sailmaker Elliot Pattison (in Laguna Beach, CA), first suggested
I consider a carbon fiber sail, I was apprehensive. I was
mostly concerned about the cost (about 15% more than I had been
spending), but the improvements became quickly clear.
The first thing is that CF sails are stronger for their weight, meaning
that the boat will be clearly overpowered long before we would worry
about breaking the sail. No longer any need to carry a light and
heavy 155%. Instead, we carried a single 155% and a 150% (also CF).
The second thing found is that CF sails maintained their shape and
remained competitive for 50% to 100% longer than the other
composites. Carbon Fiber actually ended up being considerably less
expensive. We won several C38 Nationals with genoas that were 2-3
years old. I would not consider any other material for a genoa on a
38.
Regarding overall sail inventory, we found that the perfect complement
for being competitive on SuperStar was a 155%, 150%, 130% and a 100%
blade. The mainsail was always Dacron with Kevlar
reinforcements in the corners, which lasts a lot longer than all the
modern composites. Considering how high the aspect ratio is on a
38, and that most of the drive on the boat comes from the headsail, CF
didn't make any sense to me for the main. We carried 1/2oz,
3/4oz and 1.5oz spinnakers. And for our weekly Sunset Series,
I had a used high-clew jibtop, which was mid weight Dacron.
Let me know if I can be of further help.
David Epstein
Former owner, SuperStar
#122, Marina del Rey, CA
At 11:47 AM 6/25/2014, you wrote:
Hi Steve,
If I have not already thanked you for your response, let me do so now,
it's greatly appreciated.
I would also like to thank everyone else who took the time to responded,
the information is
invaluable.
Cheers,
David
Andiamo #297
MDR
On Jun 18, 2014, at 11:24 PM, S Orton wrote:
David, I personally would stay away from carbon material unless you
have very deep pockets. Carbon fiber is one of the strongest
materials considering weight, but it doesn't like to bent as in folding ,
stepped on, slamming against the shrouds or mast when you tack. I
raced in the Southern Cal Cat 38 Nationals for four years and the
skippers who used carbon head sails replaced them every year- you can
make a carbon main last longer. Therefore, if you are seriously
into racing, I would stick with a laminated sails spending your money on
a loft that has racing experience, ie. Ullman, North, Quantum. Do
as Joe said and bypass the head furler tacking directly to the bow.
I have the old Harken drum which can't be removed, but I bypass the drum,
hanking directly to bow and let the sail luff rub on the drum- this
has caused no problem. Make sure the sail loft has a copy of our
class rules, so the sail is measured properly. In Southern Cal a
150-155 made for 8-12+ knots is an excellent sail. Pressure of 15 +
kts with a 155, the boat will be on its "ear" and a 135-140
will be a much better choice, as Steve S said, which will bring the heel
back to 10-15 degrees. Use this racing sail only for racing
and put the old canvas on for cruising.
Cheers, Steve O
On Jun 14, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
David,
Ditto on what Joe said, before you spend any money have a solid plan
on what inventory you really need. If wind is as you say 8-12 most
of the time building to 15 then you are in a nice groove. My
experience has been in less than 8 a nice carbon fiber 155 fits the bill
above 8 we go to an STS sail 140% and carry it to 22 or so. Most
light #1s have that 8 knot range, Ive flown my over that and it is now in
the loft after three years having the leech recut to remove the
nasty hook that developed from flying it in to heavy of air.
Most likely if you get a 155 you will pay a penalty of about 6 seconds
the problem with a 155 is that in order to carry it in heavy air it has
to be built for heavy air and will be to heavy of a sail under 8
knots. Our cruising 155 doesn’t like anything less than
8-10. You might consider a racing 140 like we have along with
a drifter for the really light stuff below 4. In that range of 4-8
you will have a small hole in your inventory but more money in your
pocket. I buy my sails from Dave at Island Planet sails and have
been really happy with the product and the service
Steve
#312 Peregrine
Seattle
From: Listserve
[
mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
Launie
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 8:18 PM
To:
listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: Re: [C38] new headsail
David,
We are hull number 365 in Santa Barbara. We were
cruisers long ago but took the first steps down the slippery slope to
racing. We have a Harken split drim furler which can be taken off for
racing leaving twin headsail grooves. For cruising, the furling sail can
be put right back on. I suggest you find a good sailmaker and let
him advise you on what to do. We work with Deke Klatt at Ullman.
Deke is a J-24 world champion among other things but is very laid back
and easy to work with. I think you will get dissatisfied racing with
cruising sails. Been there - did not work. Before you spend a dime I
suggest you some up to SAnta Barbara some weekend when you are not racing
in MDR to look over Macavity and sail with us. Our boat is much modified.
We sail or race every sunday and wednesday. Last wednesday we got first
in a 16 boat fleet. I have been told that significant others can
find something to do in Santa Barbara whatever her interests. Call me
cell 805-451-6388. Joe
On 6/13/2014 6:08 PM, David Stoltz wrote:
Hi
all,
I own hull #297 here in Marina Del Rey, CA. I started racing the
boat last year and have done pretty well so far. This past weekend we
took a first
in
in our class in the Del Rey YC race from MDR to Catalina and a
second on the return Sunday.
I need to buy a new headsail and am not sure what to get. The
other 38 racing has a 155 laminated sail. The average wind here is
usually between
8 to 12 knots, occasionally building to 12 to 15. I have roller
furling so I would like to have an all-around sail that I could go with
most of the time. The
other question is should I stay with a good Dacron or spring for
the extra bucks and go with a laminated sail? We spend about 60% of the
time pleasure sailing, but I would like to get the maximum performance
out of the boat when
racing.
All suggestions
welcome...
Thanks very much, your input is greatly
appreciated.
David
Stoltz
Andiamo
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David Epstein
Audio Video Consultation & Services
Phone: 310.308.3083
Mail to: 3826 Grand View Blvd. #66336, Los Angeles, CA 90066
Ship to: 658 Venice Blvd, #242A, Los Angeles, CA 90291
DEpstein at earthlink.net
Board Member, CEA TechHome Division
www.ce.org
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