[C38] new headsail
David Epstein
davidepstein at earthlink.net
Thu Jun 26 15:05:49 EDT 2014
Steve,
We flaked them, then rolled them. We had no problems folding or
bending them. They held up as good or better than the other
composites in those regards as well.
Regards,
David
At 10:06 PM 6/25/2014, you wrote:
>David, How did you stow the CF head sail- roll it or fold it? Cheers, Steve
>
>----------
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:18:51 -0700
>To: listserve at catalina38.org
>From: davidepstein at earthlink.net
>Subject: Re: [C38] new headsail
>
>David,
>
>I have to say that with all due respect, I disagree with Steve's
>conclusions about carbon fiber headsails. For many years, we
>purchased a new 155% headsail for SuperStar every two years or
>so. At first, they were Mylar, then Kevlar Pinstripe. By the end
>of two years, they were often tired and/or tattered. Also, we were
>not comfortable carrying them over about 10-11 knots true wind.
>
>When my sailmaker Elliot Pattison (in Laguna Beach, CA), first
>suggested I consider a carbon fiber sail, I was apprehensive. I
>was mostly concerned about the cost (about 15% more than I had been
>spending), but the improvements became quickly clear.
>
>The first thing is that CF sails are stronger for their weight,
>meaning that the boat will be clearly overpowered long before we
>would worry about breaking the sail. No longer any need to carry a
>light and heavy 155%. Instead, we carried a single 155% and a 150% (also CF).
>
>The second thing found is that CF sails maintained their shape and
>remained competitive for 50% to 100% longer than the other
>composites. Carbon Fiber actually ended up being considerably less
>expensive. We won several C38 Nationals with genoas that were 2-3
>years old. I would not consider any other material for a genoa on a 38.
>
>Regarding overall sail inventory, we found that the perfect
>complement for being competitive on SuperStar was a 155%, 150%, 130%
>and a 100% blade. The mainsail was always Dacron with Kevlar
>reinforcements in the corners, which lasts a lot longer than all the
>modern composites. Considering how high the aspect ratio is on a
>38, and that most of the drive on the boat comes from the headsail,
>CF didn't make any sense to me for the main. We carried 1/2oz,
>3/4oz and 1.5oz spinnakers. And for our weekly Sunset Series, I
>had a used high-clew jibtop, which was mid weight Dacron.
>
>Let me know if I can be of further help.
>
>David Epstein
>Former owner, SuperStar
>#122, Marina del Rey, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 11:47 AM 6/25/2014, you wrote:
>
>Hi Steve,
>
>If I have not already thanked you for your response, let me do so
>now, it's greatly appreciated.
>I would also like to thank everyone else who took the time to
>responded, the information is
>invaluable.
>
>Cheers,
>David
>Andiamo #297
>MDR
>
>
>On Jun 18, 2014, at 11:24 PM, S Orton wrote:
>
>
>David, I personally would stay away from carbon material unless you
>have very deep pockets. Carbon fiber is one of the strongest
>materials considering weight, but it doesn't like to bent as in
>folding , stepped on, slamming against the shrouds or mast when you
>tack. I raced in the Southern Cal Cat 38 Nationals for four years
>and the skippers who used carbon head sails replaced them every
>year- you can make a carbon main last longer. Therefore, if you are
>seriously into racing, I would stick with a laminated sails spending
>your money on a loft that has racing experience, ie. Ullman, North,
>Quantum. Do as Joe said and bypass the head furler tacking directly
>to the bow. I have the old Harken drum which can't be removed, but
>I bypass the drum, hanking directly to bow and let the sail luff
>rub on the drum- this has caused no problem. Make sure the sail
>loft has a copy of our class rules, so the sail is measured
>properly. In Southern Cal a 150-155 made for 8-12+ knots is an
>excellent sail. Pressure of 15 + kts with a 155, the boat will be
>on its "ear" and a 135-140 will be a much better choice, as Steve S
>said, which will bring the heel back to 10-15 degrees. Use this
>racing sail only for racing and put the old canvas on for cruising.
>Cheers, Steve O
>
>----------
>
>On Jun 14, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
>
>David,
>
>Ditto on what Joe said, before you spend any money have a solid plan
>on what inventory you really need. If wind is as you say 8-12 most
>of the time building to 15 then you are in a nice groove. My
>experience has been in less than 8 a nice carbon fiber 155 fits the
>bill above 8 we go to an STS sail 140% and carry it to 22 or
>so. Most light #1s have that 8 knot range, Ive flown my over that
>and it is now in the loft after three years having the leech recut
>to remove the nasty hook that developed from flying it in to heavy
>of air. Most likely if you get a 155 you will pay a penalty of
>about 6 seconds the problem with a 155 is that in order to carry it
>in heavy air it has to be built for heavy air and will be to heavy
>of a sail under 8 knots. Our cruising 155 doesn't like anything
>less than 8-10. You might consider a racing 140 like we have along
>with a drifter for the really light stuff below 4. In that range of
>4-8 you will have a small hole in your inventory but more money in
>your pocket. I buy my sails from Dave at Island Planet sails and
>have been really happy with the product and the service
>
>Steve
>#312 Peregrine
>Seattle
>
>
>From: Listserve [ mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf
>Of Joseph Launie
>Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 8:18 PM
>To: <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>listserve at catalina38.org
>Subject: Re: [C38] new headsail
>
>David,
> We are hull number 365 in Santa Barbara. We were cruisers long
> ago but took the first steps down the slippery slope to racing. We
> have a Harken split drim furler which can be taken off for racing
> leaving twin headsail grooves. For cruising, the furling sail can
> be put right back on. I suggest you find a good sailmaker and let
> him advise you on what to do. We work with Deke Klatt at Ullman.
> Deke is a J-24 world champion among other things but is very laid
> back and easy to work with. I think you will get dissatisfied
> racing with cruising sails. Been there - did not work. Before you
> spend a dime I suggest you some up to SAnta Barbara some weekend
> when you are not racing in MDR to look over Macavity and sail with
> us. Our boat is much modified. We sail or race every sunday and
> wednesday. Last wednesday we got first in a 16 boat fleet. I have
> been told that significant others can find something to do in Santa
> Barbara whatever her interests. Call me cell 805-451-6388. Joe
>On 6/13/2014 6:08 PM, David Stoltz wrote:
>
>
>
>Hi
>
>all,
>
>
>
>I own hull #297 here in Marina Del Rey, CA. I started racing the
>
>boat last year and have done pretty well so far. This past weekend we
>
>took a first
>
>in
>
>in our class in the Del Rey YC race from MDR to Catalina and a
>
>second on the return Sunday.
>
>
>
>
>I need to buy a new headsail and am not sure what to get. The
>
>other 38 racing has a 155 laminated sail. The average wind here is
>
>usually between
>
>
>8 to 12 knots, occasionally building to 12 to 15. I have roller
>
>furling so I would like to have an all-around sail that I could go with
>
>most of the time. The
>
>
>other question is should I stay with a good Dacron or spring for
>
>the extra bucks and go with a laminated sail? We spend about 60% of the
>
>time pleasure sailing, but I would like to get the maximum performance
>
>out of the boat when
>
>racing.
>
>
>
>All suggestions
>
>welcome...
>
>
>
>Thanks very much, your input is greatly
>
>appreciated.
>
>
>
>David
>
>Stoltz
>
>Andiamo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>David Stoltz
>Executive Producer
>310.785.9100
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>David Stoltz
>Executive Producer
>310.785.9100
>
>
>
>
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>
>David Epstein
>Audio Video Consultation & Services
>Phone: 310.308.3083
>Mail to: 3826 Grand View Blvd. #66336, Los Angeles, CA 90066
>Ship to: 658 Venice Blvd, #242A, Los Angeles, CA 90291
>
>DEpstein at earthlink.net
>Board Member, CEA TechHome Division
><http://www.ce.org/>www.ce.org
>_______________________________________________ Listserve mailing
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David Epstein
Audio Video Consultation & Services
Phone: 310.308.3083
Mail to: 3826 Grand View Blvd. #66336, Los Angeles, CA 90066
Ship to: 658 Venice Blvd, #242A, Los Angeles, CA 90291
DEpstein at earthlink.net
Board Member, CEA TechHome Division
www.ce.org
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