[C38] flare guns
Tom T.
tdtron at earthlink.net
Mon Dec 29 22:11:59 EST 2014
We all agree that this hysteria about flare guns shooting shotgun shells
is ridiculous but we have to accept that common sense is not really common.
I have three boats, all with flare guns on board. All have the old 12
gauge. orange guns and I am not about to suspend carrying them because
they "look" dangerous.
The truth is, they will load and fire a 12 gauge. shotgun shell if
someone is stupid enough to try it. I am sure that if Olin had any idea
how stupid the populace would become, they would not have started out
with their 12 gauge design but it is here to stay since there are so
many thousands if not millions of them in ownership protecting lives and
vessels everywhere.
A 12 gauge flare and a 12 gauge shotgun shell look similar but that is
where the similarity ends. A shotgun shell uses a very slow burning
powder to push a very heavy one ounce wad of lead shot through a barrel
of at least 18" to get the full force of the powder's energy. Since the
powder is very slow burning, a short flare gun length barrel would yield
very little velocity or energy and most of the powder would just end up
as sparks coming from the barrel.
When the Taurus Judge revolver came out a few years ago, it was touted
as a hand cannon since it could shoot a 410 shotgun shell. The ballistic
results were nothing short of anemic because of the short barrel and now
special 410 ammunition is made for 410 revolvers using quick burning
pistol powder to get the energy and velocity needed for any defensive
firearm.
To my knowledge, no ammunition manufacturer has produced a fast burning
powder 12 gauge shotgun shell so shooting a standard 12 gauge shell in a
flare gun would yield weak results and probably endanger the shooter as
much as anyone downrange. A flare produces almost no breach pressure
but even a standard shotgun shell in a short barrel would still probably
overstress the breach resulting in a ruptured plastic breech of the
flare gun.
Sorry for this long rant which probably should have been said to the
Washington legislature when it was in session. I wonder how many
politicians actually know anything about guns?
I am aware that politics is not allowed here but when political
decisions effect our safety, we need to pay attention.
Tom Troncalli
On 12/28/2014 10:01 PM, Jeffry Matzdorff wrote:
> Another sailing, flare gun ending movie-
>
> Dead Calm
>
> Jeffry Matzdorff
> +1.323.855.0191
> earthakat at msn.com <mailto:earthakat at msn.com>
> www.offshoredeliveryskipper.com <http://www.offshoredeliveryskipper.com>
>
> On Dec 28, 2014, at 6:41 PM, "Donald Strong" <drstrong at ucdavis.edu
> <mailto:drstrong at ucdavis.edu>> wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid, a rough friend showed up with an old brass flare
>> gun into which he shoved a 12 gauge shell, birdshot.
>> He set it off. and it exploded to lacerate his arm. Lots of screaming
>> and wrapping handkerchiefs around the wound. In the
>> 70's I recall a great B grade movie in which a husband and wife pair
>> of sailors was accosted by a horrid crew of a shrimpboat,
>> off Louisiana or Florida. The pair saved themselves by firing a flare
>> from the orange pistol into the face of one of the
>> malefactors. The woman then throttled the other bad guy with a line
>> around his neck. She wrapped the loop around a winch and cranked.
>> Great sailing movie, better than Captain Ron; I can't find it on
>> youtube.
>> Those orange guns intrigue me. I am thankful never have had to use
>> one, in any capacity.
>> Don
>>
>> On 12/28/14 5:25 PM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> The guy at West Marine did say that the state was looking into
>>> fixing the problem. You would think they would learn, a few years
>>> ago they passed legistaltion that banned traps for hunting, well
>>> little did they know it also included mouse and mole traps, it took
>>> a few years to straighten that out all the while soccer fields and
>>> parks were unusable because of the rampant mole damage.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> *From:*Listserve [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Tom T.
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 28, 2014 11:44 AM
>>> *To:* Catalina 38 Listserve
>>> *Subject:* Re: [C38] FYI
>>>
>>> I wonder if the brilliant legislators put in a provision to amend
>>> this law after a certain number of boaters end up dead or injured
>>> and numbers of vessels lost from lack of proper emergency flares?
>>> From what history has shown us, legislative stupidity is often
>>> eternal. May God help us!
>>>
>>> Since carrying flares is a federal requirement, it will be
>>> interesting to see how this plays out.
>>>
>>> Less we get smug, I don't think any state has a monopoly on
>>> stupidity. We all need to keep an active roll in our state and
>>> federal laws to protect our boating rights. Elections have
>>> consequences. Right now, Florida is still fighting boaters on
>>> anchoring rights and the local communities are fighting the state
>>> government on a state wide agreement. Good luck on that one!
>>>
>>> Tom Troncalli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/28/2014 1:56 PM, Max Soto wrote:
>>>
>>> So, I should forget about buying them online????
>>>
>>>
>>> Max Soto
>>>
>>> +506-8312-1367
>>>
>>> Alajuela, Costa Rica
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26/12/2014, at 22:26, Steve Smolinske
>>> <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
>>> <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I pass this along not as a political statement of support
>>> for one view or the other but just as information that
>>> boaters should be aware of so they can plan accordingly.
>>>
>>> Today I went to West Marine to purchase replacement flares
>>> for my ski boat. Last election cycle Washington voters
>>> approved strict new gun laws. Well it seems that West
>>> Marine in Washington State no longer can sell flare “guns”
>>> because they are not an authorized firearms dealer, and in
>>> order to buy one a person needs to go through a background
>>> check and waiting period. Also included in the ban are the
>>> rocket type flares because they also “fire” a projectile.
>>> I wonder if the USCG will give me a pass for not having
>>> flares onboard? (I am grinning ear to ear thinking of
>>> Larry’s reaction as he reads this)
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Peregrine #312
>>>
>>> Seattle
>>>
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