[C38] Fw: antifouling

[Les Howell]

Hi, Everyone,
    This is an email I sent to Ms. Johnson about the proposals they are 
making on the antifouling bottom paint.  Their response is somewhat 
underwhelming.  But I believe that they do have some good ideas.  However, 
the costs are prohibitive.  You first have to remove all traces of other 
bottom paints before any of these newer treatments can be done.  In 
addition, in this area (Southern California) the water temp is moderate, 
averaging about 58 degrees Fahrenheit, so bottom cleaning here would have to 
be done two times a month.  I don't think this would work in Florida, 
because of the differences in water temp, and the greater amount of growth 
that ensues.  However I could be wrong.
    If any of you have comments, you might address them to Ms. Johnson for 
her information on how this should proceed.

Regards,
Les H

Les Howell Technical Specialist, Teradyne (retired) hlhowell at pacbell.net IM: 
OldETC (Yahoo) Professional Profile
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Les Howell" <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
To: "Leigh T. Johnson" <ltjohnson at ucdavis.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: antifouling


> Hi, Leigh,
>    A boat bottom cleaning costs $40.00 right now.  Two times a month would 
> make that $80.00.  My slip rent just went up by about 15 percent and is 
> now over $700.00/month here in orange county.  Fuel is near $3.00/gal, and 
> normal maintenance before slip rent and bottom cleaning runs about 
> $100/month to own a boat.
>
>    This is ridiculous.  Boat owners are not all millionaires.  My boat 
> cost only about $50,000.  Some how $960 per month for my enjoyment seems 
> just a bit over the top.  Worse, more than 50% of that is taxes.  Bottom 
> paints are taxed as sales tax, and the environmental taxes, and there are 
> the taxes paid when the folks do the work of 7.75% and the county override 
> as well.
>
>    All I want is to own and sail my boat.  I don't mind reasonable fees, 
> but if everyone who thinks my practices (which are centuries old, by the 
> way) are so damaging that they need to add more costs, pretty soon the 
> effect is discriminatory, leading to a very exclusive club for ownership 
> of a boat, which is just not right.  I don't think you can justify that 
> either, nor if you were the one with the boat, would you appreciate it 
> either.  I do understand the concerns about copper.  But an improvement 
> should lower the cost of boat ownership, as well as protecting the 
> environment.  You and the others involved need to seek a means to allow 
> even those of low income the opportunity to enjoy our glorious coasts, our 
> wonderful fishing, and the freedom and adventure of sailing and boating.
>
>    Please help us as well as the environment.  My wife and I love taking 
> out our family and friends.  We enjoy the adventure, and supporting and 
> maintaining the boat is part of that.  But my budget is nearly broken, and 
> after working for 41 years, serving my country for 20 of those, I am sad, 
> and disappointed at the turn of events that make me feel like there is 
> nothing at the end of all that work and pain.  I won't be able to support 
> the boat very long anyway, and as I grow older I will have to give it up 
> soon enough due to the deprecation of age.  So please help us to find a 
> middle ground that will enable us to enjoy our boats, our beautiful 
> country and the freedom that has cost me so very much.
>
>    And please send me the material you talked about.  Better still, if it 
> is beneficial to boat owners and our environment, post it on the coast 
> guard website or on the RBOC website.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Regards,
> Les Howell
> Les Howell Technical Specialist, Teradyne (retired) hlhowell at pacbell.net 
> IM: OldETC (Yahoo) Professional Profile
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Leigh T. Johnson" <ltjohnson at ucdavis.edu>
> To: "Les Howell" <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
> Cc: <jagonzalez at ucdavis.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: antifouling
>
>
>> Dear Les,
>>
>> Thanks for writing back. I will answer your comments as best I can.
>>
>> We were advised by local hull cleaners that nontoxic coatings need to be 
>> cleaned about twice a month, except more often when the weather is 
>> warmer. In our demo, we asked them to clean twice a month and we noticed 
>> the fouling grew faster in months with warmer water temperatures.
>>
>> The appropriate additive for slip liners is fresh water which lowers the 
>> salt concentration below what marine creatures can tolerate. I have heard 
>> that some boat owners add chlorine and agree with you that it can be very 
>> harmful if it escapes from the slip liner. I have heard but don't know 
>> the facts on whether the bleach eventually breaks down. The Regional 
>> Water Quality Control Board should be able to advise you on rules about 
>> chlorine and slip liners.
>>
>> The Regional and State Water Boards conducted the studies that led to 
>> their decision to require boat owners in Shelter Island Yacht Basin to 
>> reduce copper discharges from antifouling paints. If the regulations are 
>> extended to other areas, the Water Boards and California Department of 
>> Pesticide Regulation will conduct the water quality studies and make the 
>> rules.
>>
>> In contrast, we conducted research and education to help boat owners 
>> learn about alternatives to copper bottom paints and the economics of 
>> using them. Please let me know if you would like a copy of our two 
>> reports.
>>
>> I would like to hear how boaters are handling this challenge, so please 
>> do let me know if you find a solution that will work for you. Local boat 
>> repair yards are aware of the problem and they are a good source of 
>> information.
>>
>> We hope the government will fund independent trials of the various new 
>> products, some of which will hopefully be even more cost effective than 
>> the ones that are already on the market. There are many scientists who 
>> could conduct such trials.
>>
>> Best wishes in your search for alternatives to copper antifouling paints,
>> Leigh Johnson
>>
>> At 09:04 AM 1/18/2006, you wrote:
>>>Your email is somewhat helpful, but didn't answer my question.
>>>
>>>    In addition, I currently have the boat bottom cleaned monthly.  From 
>>> your information here, would that mean every three weeks or every two 
>>> weeks?
>>>
>>>    Those liners are effective, but isn't the bleach used to inhibit the 
>>> growth even worse on the environment than the copper.  It is chlorine 
>>> bleach that is used to inhibit growth, and a full cup or two at that. 
>>> It has to be added each time the boat is used, so the total becomes 
>>> about 1 gallon a month for a weekend user.  And that is much more 
>>> material than the copper, as well as being harder to justify in view of 
>>> global warming I would think. Also the chlorine bleach directly attacks 
>>> the calcium carbonate that makes up the corals and shells of other 
>>> marine animals.
>>>
>>>    I am not being obtrusive.  I do want to both preserve my boat and the 
>>> environment.  However I recently retired.  Adding expense that I did not 
>>> plan for is difficult at best and may remove my boat from the picture 
>>> just when I could enjoy it the most.  That is not just unfair, it is 
>>> unrealistic of anyone to make that demand of me unless they have hard 
>>> facts behind them. I do not want to harm the environment.  I do enjoy 
>>> the ocean and my boat. And you don't know me, so why would you do this 
>>> to me. It is personal to me.  Worse, this paper of yours may have this 
>>> impact on thousands of people, not just in San Diego, but nation wide, 
>>> or even world wide.
>>>
>>>    So, please help us find a good path that keeps the environment safe, 
>>> allows us to keep and enjoy our boats, and is within reason for our 
>>> budgets. That is not easy, I know, but it is the right path to walk.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Les H
>>>Les Howell Technical Specialist, Teradyne (retired) hlhowell at pacbell.net 
>>>IM: OldETC (Yahoo) Professional Profile
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh T. Johnson" 
>>><ltjohnson at ucdavis.edu>
>>>To: <leshowell at email.uophx.edu>; <hlhowell at pacbell.net>
>>>Cc: <jagonzalez at ucdavis.edu>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:42 PM
>>>Subject: Re: antifouling
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear Les,
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for writing to me. Your e-mail went to our general office 
>>>>e-mailbox and was eventually printed and given to me. I apologize for 
>>>>any delay.
>>>>
>>>>You asked what companies in San Diego furnish a 4 year warranty on 
>>>>antifouling in San Diego that do the job with anti-fouling paint. I 
>>>>understand that the costs are considerable and am impressed with your 
>>>>efforts to do the best that you can. You will need to talk directly with 
>>>>companies that sell and/or apply hull coatings and ask whichever company 
>>>>you choose to specify any available warranties in the contract you sign.
>>>>
>>>>The situation is in flux, so hard and fast answers are not yet 
>>>>available. I'll tell you what I've learned, but cannot offer guarantees. 
>>>>For more information, please email me to request a copy of our two 
>>>>booklets:
>>>>"Making Dollars and Sense of Nontoxic Antifouling Strategies for Boats" 
>>>>(includes a cost worksheet)
>>>>"Staying Afloat with Nontoxic Antifouling Strategies for Boats" 
>>>>(includes a list of nontoxic coatings; not a recommendation - just a 
>>>>list)
>>>>If you ask for "Making Dollars" and "Staying Afloat" we'll know what you 
>>>>mean.
>>>>
>>>>We conducted a field demonstration of three, nontoxic boat bottom 
>>>>coatings on six boats for about 14 months during 2002-2003.  Divers 
>>>>cleaned them and reported to us on a systematic basis. Here is what we 
>>>>observed:
>>>>
>>>>Nontoxic coatings need to be cleaned about twice as often as copper 
>>>>antifouling paints. If the coating is cleaned regularly, it prevents 
>>>>fouling growth from hardening, so the diver can use a gentler tool and 
>>>>less effort, which is better for the coating. Also, some growth can 
>>>>damage the coating directly, which is another reason for frequent 
>>>>cleaning. Many nontoxic coatings currently on the market will not stick 
>>>>to old copper antifouling paint, which will need to be stripped. See 
>>>>below for how to make up for these costs.
>>>>
>>>>The epoxy and the ceramic-epoxy coatings that were 1 to 1 1/2 years old 
>>>>at the end of the demonstration were still in very good condition. One 
>>>>boat owner had put the epoxy coating on his boat about 4 years before 
>>>>our demonstration and he allowed us to take data on it. At the end of 
>>>>our demo this 5-year old coating was still in good condition and it was 
>>>>smoother from frequent cleaning with a powered brush.
>>>>
>>>>The silicone-rubber coating had to be replaced after one year. it was 
>>>>preferred by serious racers who were able to invest in annual 
>>>>replacement and very frequent cleaning.
>>>>
>>>>Our funding did not allow us to continue taking systematic data after 
>>>>fall 2003, but we contacted the owners of the boats with epoxy and 
>>>>ceramic-epoxy coatings again in 2004 and 2005. The coatings continue to 
>>>>be in good condition; one is now over 7 years old and the others are 
>>>>about 3 1/2 years old. One owner is a sailing club that tells us the 
>>>>boat wins races, if the hull is cleaned before the race. Nontoxic 
>>>>coatings need to be cleaned about twice as often as copper-based 
>>>>coatings, so they are spending more on hull cleaning. A second boat 
>>>>owner is managing his hull cleaning costs by using a slip liner. The 
>>>>third boat owner has simulated planks on the hull of his boat and it's 
>>>>hard to clean tubeworms from the grooves between the "planks." He has 
>>>>told his hull cleaner not to try to clean the grooves to pristine 
>>>>condition in order to control cleaning costs. The fourth boat owner, 
>>>>whose boat has had the coating for about 7 years, told us he had broken 
>>>>even after about 5 years on the extra costs to convert and to clean the 
>>>>hull twice as often. Now he believes he is better off financially with 
>>>>the nontoxic coating than if he still had to reapply a copper paint 
>>>>every 2-3 years.
>>>>
>>>>We conducted a formal survey of boaters in 2002 and learned that San 
>>>>Diego boaters change their copper antifouling paint after 2 or 3 years. 
>>>>The nontoxic epoxy and ceramic-epoxy coatings on boats in our demo have 
>>>>all lasted over 3 years and are still in good condition. This suggests 
>>>>that, although they will require more initial investment and more 
>>>>cleaning costs, they will very likely be cost effective in the long run.
>>>>
>>>>I understand that some boaters may not keep a boat long enough to make 
>>>>up the costs to convert and pay for extra cleaning. However, it's 
>>>>possible (no guarantee) that new regulatory programs may make boats with 
>>>>nontoxic hull coatings more valuable. In December 2005 the state 
>>>>approved a regulatory program for Shelter Island Yacht Basin that will 
>>>>require a 76% reduction in copper discharges from antifouling paints 
>>>>over 17 years. Please check with your marina to find out how this may 
>>>>affect you. The State and Regional Water Boards and the Department of 
>>>>Pesticide Regulation are planning to study saltwater and freshwater 
>>>>marinas around the state in the next year or two to see whether copper 
>>>>is creating a water quality problem beyond Shelter Island Yacht Basin. 
>>>>Some areas, such as Oceanside Harbor and Newport Bay are already the 
>>>>subject of regulatory investigations for copper pollution from 
>>>>antifouling paints. I can't be sure how this will play out, but it's 
>>>>possible that regulations may spread beyond Shelter Island Yacht Basin 
>>>>in the coming years.
>>>>
>>>>Many companies are developing nontoxic and less-toxic bottom coatings 
>>>>and companion strategies and some are coming onto the market. However, 
>>>>they will need to be evaluated in different regions, to see how well 
>>>>they perform in different climates, with different local fouling 
>>>>species, and on boats with different operating styles.
>>>>
>>>>I hope this information will be helpful to you, Les. Please contact me 
>>>>again if you have more questions.
>>>>
>>>>Best regards, Leigh Johnson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>Ms. Leigh Taylor Johnson, Marine Advisor
>>>>Sea Grant Extension Program - University of California Cooperative 
>>>>Extension
>>>>County of San Diego MS O-18
>>>>5555 Overland Avenue Suite 4101, San Diego, CA 92123
>>>>
>>>>Voice:   (858) 694-2852     FAX:   (858) 694-2849
>>>>E-Mail:  ltjohnson at ucdavis.edu    Internet:  http://seagrant.ucdavis.edu
>>>>
>>>>"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of 
>>>>thinking
>>>>we were at when we created them."  - Albert Einstein
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Ms. Leigh Taylor Johnson, Marine Advisor
>> Sea Grant Extension Program - University of California Cooperative 
>> Extension
>> County of San Diego MS O-18
>> 5555 Overland Avenue Suite 4101, San Diego, CA 92123
>>
>> Voice:   (858) 694-2852     FAX:   (858) 694-2849
>> E-Mail:  ltjohnson at ucdavis.edu    Internet:  http://seagrant.ucdavis.edu
>>
>> "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of 
>> thinking
>> we were at when we created them."  - Albert Einstein
>>
>