[C38] Alternator and charging

Les hlhowell at pacbell.net
Wed Jul 8 22:10:08 EDT 2009


Basically this allows you have something like #8 or #10 wire jumper
between the starter solenoid and the alternator, then heavy battery
cable for low loss to the battery.  You MUST have large #2 or #4 wire to
the battery to carry the literally hundreds of amps that the full start
and preheater require.  There is no need to run that heavy a wire to the
alternator, where it would add mechanical load that the alternator
designer did not expect.

Regards,
Les H

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 07:59 -0500, Craig Steinkraus wrote:
> Maybe after I get to the boat and look at the wiring, it will be
> apparent, but as I sit here the question I have is why run the alt.
> output to the starter first?
>  
>  
> Craig Steinkraus
> "Wings"
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>         From: Steve Smolinske 
>         To: Catalina 38 Listserve 
>         Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:52 PM
>         Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>         
>         
>         Max I do run it from the alternator to the starter, and then
>         from the starter to the battery switch.  
>         
>         
>         ______________________________________________________________
>         From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>         [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Max
>         Soto
>         Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 AM
>         To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>         Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         HI Steve, 
>         
>         
>         Now it makes sense. I thought you run the wire from the alt
>         directly to the starter, and I was thinking how you were using
>         the new switch, but if you have it directly hooked up to a
>         battery bank it should be working great.
>         I have almost the same setup but the alt wire runs directly to
>         the house bank. I was going to use the same ACR, but since I
>         have different battery technologies I went for the echo
>         charge(just 15 amps, but enough for a starting battery)..
>         I agree with you that the charging system has never worked as
>         good as with this setup.
>         
>         
>         Max
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>                 Max,
>                 
>                 ACR stands for Automatic Charging Relay,  it combines
>                 the two banks during charging and isolates during
>                 discharge.   Mine is hooked up so that when the engine
>                 starts it goes to the start bank first and then after
>                 30 seconds connects the two banks so the voltage
>                 equalizes and then charges both.
>                 http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386
>                 
>                 
>                 On the bluse sea switch
>                 http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6011_web_version.pdf  it isolates the two banks except when you need to combine for emergencies.   Rather than choices for which bank to use the old 1, 2 or 1&2 it only has on and combine.  In the on position both banks are providing power one to house one to start but are never combined unless you choose the combine option.  To charge all you do is select on and start the engine.
>                 
>                 Steve
>                 
>                 
>                 <http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/386>
>                 
>                 ________________________________
>                 
>                 From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on behalf of
>                 Max Soto
>                 Sent: Mon 7/6/2009 5:14 PM
>                 
>                 To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>                 Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>                 
>                 
>                 Hi Steve,
>                 
>                 Just a couple of questions:
>                 
>                 What's that ACR is this some kind of isolator or
>                 charging relay???
>                 I have this switch on Estancia, but in my case the
>                 current from the alternator runs directly to the house
>                 battery bank, and a Xantrex Echo Charger tranfers
>                 current from this bank to the starting battery.
>                 
>                 How do you charge the second battery bank??? You have
>                 to use the Blue Seas switch on "emergency start" to
>                 charge both banks at the same time??
>                 
>                 Regards,
>                 
>                 Max
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 2009/7/6 Steve Smolinske
>                 <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>                 
>                 
>                        Conclusion for everyone on this item,  I took
>                 Tom's advice and what a difference in the system.  I
>                 ended up having the alternator and starter tested and
>                 rebuilt ($125) new brushes, regulator and contacts.
>                  When hooking it back up I ran current from the
>                 alternator directly to the starter then on to the
>                 battery switch.  The wires that use to lead the
>                 current up to the ampmeter and then back to the
>                 starter (red and orange #10) one was abandonded and
>                 the other powers the new voltmeter with an inline
>                 fuse.   I also replaced the battery switch with Blue
>                 Seas newer switch that completly isolates the house
>                 and start banks with the exception of emergency
>                 combine, just one choice on or off for normal
>                 operation, no more 1, 2 or 1&2 to confuse the
>                 admiral.  It also turns out that the problem most
>                 likely was an incorrectly installed ACR,  there are
>                 two important small wires that allow the ACR to sense
>                 both banks.  Even though the ACR wiring was probably
>                 the culprit it is a nice feeling after tearing things
>                 apart to realize that all that current from the
>                 alternator is no longer going through two undersized
>                 wires and a suspect wire harness but instead is being
>                 carried by a battery cable to the batteries.
>                 
>                        Steve
>                        Peregrine #312
>                        Seattle
>                 
>                 ________________________________
>                 
>                        From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org on
>                 behalf of Tom T.
>                        Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 3:27 PM
>                        To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>                        Subject: Re: [C38] Alternator and charging
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                        Hello Steve,
>                 
>                        You are correct.  The 30 amp fuse in your
>                 charging circuit is too small to carry the load if the
>                 batteries are discharged or you are running other high
>                 load applications.  I expect they may be using a small
>                 fuse to try to reduce the maximum load on the wiring
>                 harness which has been a problem in the past.
>                 
>                        To carry a high amperage load to your engine
>                 control panel is not only a lot of electrical loss but
>                 it can be dangerous if your harness connections are
>                 corroded.  There have been many original engine
>                 control harnesses burned up because of the high load
>                 on the amp meter wires in that harness.
>                 
>                        The amp meter isn't needed anyway.  You can
>                 have an amp meter showing a lot of amps but if your
>                 battery bank is shorted, you will only be creating
>                 heat on the harness and load on your engine but a
>                 shorted battery will never charge with the amp meter
>                 giving you a false sense of security.   A volt meter
>                 gives a better idea of your charging and battery
>                 conditions.
>                 
>                        A more practical solution to the amp meter is
>                 to replace the original amp meter with a marine grade
>                 volt meter.  To do this, you run the output of the
>                 alternator directly to your battery banks and use the
>                 original wires to the amp meter to feed a new volt
>                 meter.  You can run the feed to the volt meter from
>                 the positive side of the starter solenoid since it is
>                 very close to the alternator making a very easy
>                 conversion.
>                 
>                        The volt meter conversion is a very good and
>                 highly recommended upgrade.  It will make your boat
>                 safer and your alternator will perform better because
>                 more output will go to the battery bank instead of
>                 wasted in heat loss in the harness and possible faulty
>                 connectors.
>                 
>                        Fuse the wire that you run from the solenoid to
>                 the new volt meter.  There will be very little current
>                 on that wire now so even a small fuse like 5 amps will
>                 do fine.  The fuse should be very close to the
>                 alternator for safety.
>                 
>                        It has been a long time since I made this
>                 modification on my boat but I believe the harness wire
>                 used for the volt meter conversion is an orange wire.
>                  I wrote an article for Mainsheet several years ago
>                 about this conversion but I don't remember what year
>                 or month it was but I'm sure I can find a draft copy
>                 in my archives if you need it, just let me know and
>                 I'll look for it.
>                 
>                        Good luck,
>                 
>                        Tom Troncalli
>                        Renata (Hull #95)
>                 
>                                ----- Original Message -----
>                 
>                                From: Steve Smolinske
>                 <mailto:SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
>                                To: Catalina 38 Listserve
>                 <mailto:listserve at catalina38.org>
>                                Sent: 6/29/2009 4:35:25 PM
>                                Subject: [C38] Alternator and charging
>                 
>                 
>                                Tom T, I'm hoping you can add some
>                 insight on this.   I suspected my system wasn't
>                 charging so I took the alternator and starter off and
>                 had them both tested, they are fine, and since there
>                 off I took the precaution to have the regulator,
>                 brushes and contacts replaced.  Going over the wiring
>                 diagram for the M30 They call out #10 wire with a 30
>                 amp fuse inline from the amp meter to the Starter
>                 Solenoid.  Knowing that a regulator varies charge
>                 based on battery condition/charge and rpm isn't a 30
>                 amp fuse undersized, and why a fuse anyway, shouldn't
>                 the wire be sized correctly to handle the highest load
>                 the system would see.
>                 
>                 
>                                Steve Smolinske
>                                President
>                 
>                                4M Company, Inc.
>                                15660 Nelson Place South
>                                Seattle, WA  98188
>                                425-227-4500
>                 
>                                www.rainierrubber.com
>                 <http://www.rainierrubber.com/>
>                 
>                 
>                                The information contained in this email
>                 may be confidential and/or proprietary in nature and
>                 is intended for the recipient of the email only.
>                  Please treat all information contained in this and
>                 any communication with the 4M Company as such.  Thank
>                 you.
>                 
>                                P Before printing, think about
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>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
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>         
>         
>         
>         -- 
>         Max Soto
>         C38 #198 ESTANCIA
>         Puntarenas, Costa Rica
>         
>         
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